Regardless of the quality of breeders out there, buying seeds will always be a gamble. Even the best breeders make mistakes. I bought a pack of BOG Sour Lifesaver awhile a back and 0% would germinate, but I contacted Mr. and Mrs. BOG and they responded very quickly, admitted they had made a mistake and asked if they could replace the bad pack with a different strain, because there had been a problem with the Sour Lifesaver. I chose their Sour Grape and they were at my door in a couple days. They were honest and had GREAT customer service, and I think that is something a lot of breeders are lacking. Even though it was a slight inconvenience, I will never think twice about giving good people like that my money. Also you can tell they share the same passion for cannabis as I do.
so true - I remember conversation on OG 1.0 about the difference between ābreedersā and ācrossersā.
I have no such illusions about this! Iām operating out of a 4 X 4 tent! Iām a Crosser, and proud of it 
sometimes feminized is the better optionā¦ iād rather self pollinate a clone only strain than using an unrelated male and trying to breed it back out
I dunno why it somehow feels that you could do something new, something inventive and assertive to try and breed some good weed, but at the same time i always hear about failure in the breeding world, i canāt help it but to feel that there is some kind of a conspiracy trying to discourage people to try and breed on their own, i mean seedbanks and breeders would be out of a job, so i just feel that doing things your way, you might fail or you might succeed but i also feel that there are people interested in no one doing what they do, or at least to confuse us so we donāt succeed. Weird.
i would agree with this in a marijuana world all together which is why we see so much bad grow advice think about it more growers more competition someone new to growing equals less money to new growers former pot dude so i could def see the motive in doing so not saying everyone is trash but i know when i was working with a particular dude the first dude i guess i was learning from my flowers were bull shit weight was bull shit i was doing everything he said using his clones an this is a dude i moved alot for an when i decided to move up in the worlds all the advice he gave me which idk at the time but was back asswards to what i now know an learned from legit ppl on the internet that ive never met so always make sure to ask what is this persons motive
Guys please donāt be upset will be moving this discussion to a more appropriate placeā¦ THX
I agree with you on that @Growinnblowin, and for the most part i am anti-establishment, in a good way if at all possible. So i am gonna breed, eeverysingle strain i feel worth it, and weāll see, give me a couple of years and iāll show you guys my workā¦
can never be mad at you brotha your the one who is mad hahaha get what i did there lol
HAHAHAHAHAHA Good one man! That gave a good laugh, thanks! 
I get your point Rick. Consider mine like a critic of the evolution (customer side) since the 90āS, more. Garbage is an image for this ridiculous plant that customers ask at the price of the whole quality. We are now in a āworld of qualityā that push feminized ruderalis hybrids everywhere. If these frankenstein seeds, sold at high price as āseed to smokeā and not genotypes, was tremendously better ā¦ why not, it will explain the massive appeal maybe. But itās absolutely not the case, at the point that it is not a polemic for anyone. Beginner or not.
Thatās very personnal and i assume 100% my words, but the general trend is actually focused on junk food and the new sandwich of the month. Itās why i canāt blame somes breeders to be forced to play this game. Theyr daily smoke are generally not what theyr customers ask as an unique condition for everything, they donāt invested in breeding to get an average street-weed-equivalence but a strain of one life. A grail. But when one come to you and explain you that a cannabis seeds have to be like a car with versatile options ā¦ you ask yourself why you take all these risks to do the things rightly. You stop, or you adapt with a big amount of cynicism.
The net is flooded with fake seedbanks and the weed of the conservative growers are now out of reach ? Itās what people asked for. I will not complain, i will not cry or blame someone for that. Iām just very sad when i see relative new grower discovering a well grown classic like a stellar weed from another dimension, it was the daily of many people back in the days. And itās what actually split twos generations of growers, the references.
I canāt imagine what kind of reference can build a grower with the actual frankenstein seeds available. And without forcing them to put theyr weed on the table with your and let the smoke speak ā¦ itās impossible to share something about theyr responsability in the market. Itās more easy to sell them fem seeds that are produced by a plant that canāt be used for anything without dangers, as āorganic seedsā. I donāt get the logic, so i find it crazy.
āItās more about the millesimes that anything else imho.ā Could you elaborate on this? I donāt speak french.
āMillesimeā is a term generally used in the wine industry to qualify a product. I simplify but some years are more expensive that others because the environment/weather/methods was/were optimal for the quality.
I extend that to the seeds sources, somes periods was more favorable that others to get the seeds of one strain. Like by example the whole catalog of Paradise Seeds before they started the feminized lines. Or the Serious Seeds line before they encountered problems with theyr moms/pops etc ā¦ in one case itās a strategy, in the other itās a common problematic to produce cannabis seeds in total illegality. But both created famous millesime for gens collectors (god bless it, generally ignored by the junk food addicts because not hyped and not enough lucrative for the street.
The only way to fix this fall is to come back to the state when making seeds in a corner is not a shame but a normality. Everything will follow, youāre forced to educate you on the plant to expect results.
It have to be a common practice that donāt deserve any hierarchy or marketing. Pollen chunkers, seed makers etc ā¦ this is just a marketing extension to fool the people that donāt want to believe that theyr commercial seeds with big names are generally produced in less space that they use for they personnal weed.
Amen. I believe this to be todays trendā¦
this is the problem with legalization ive tried explaining to my friends to no avail cause when i talk pot i must sound like the teacher from charlie brown but it seems with legalization at least with most companies it like there trying to grow good enough weed an people are confusing dispensary weed with what actual good flowers is now dont get me wrong there are some sources out there that care about the plant an care about the customer but right now with it still being so new at least the green rush that is happening ppl are trying just to get a big enough name out there so they can become āto big to failā an with the green rush so many new people are gettting into the trade ignorant to these things an there are people out there ready to take advantage of there ignorance an i think because of prohibition there are more ignorant than there are educated so there is more money in taking advantage of that fact than pandering to those who do have knowledge if 3 million people donate a dollar you just made 3 million dollars kind of thing
Same here bro, this is so trueā¦
I think itās just that hobby/small growers donāt have the resources. If you want to select for certain traits it is better to have hundreds or thousands of plants to choose from. If you are only able to grow four or even a dozen plants you wonāt have the diversity.
Not saying it canāt be done. Just that someone with more resources at their disposal can do it much better.
Do you think there is any truth to my statement, or you believe iām wrong entirely. Anyway, thatās not gonna stop me from doing my experiments with all the strains i got so far (and all the new ones iām buyingā¦)
Itās preposterous to think that no one can do it unless they are millionaires with hundreds of thousands of plants to grow, plus iām not gonna try and breed to sell strains, I WILL DO IT because i want to. Only reason why.
Try to support me bro, that is what overgrow is for, to support each other, please donāt try to get the idea out of my head, because first of all, you wonāt succeed and second, iād like to have friends who support me, not the other way around.
Thanks @RickSanchez!
@Fuel I think we are in agreement. What the customers want, at least from what i see in the shops, is high THC content. (This is for finished product not genetics) I think this will evolve though. People will become more discerning, maybe start looking for specific effects or aromas, And the industry will evolve to chase the demand. Starting with the big growers in legal states and being followed by breeders and sellers of seeds to enthusiast growers.
This is what Iād like to know more about. Anyone can sell seeds and be a breeder, but who is actually advancing the breed and who is just making seeds. Iād like to support the former.
What about @Subcool? He is a great breeder and doesnāt grow out hundreds of plants.
Exactly my point. Exactly like @Baudelaire and @BogSeeds!
The person who can discourage me to do what i want,
hasnāt been born yet, and probably never will. LOL
Abnegation, perseverance, endurance and honesty.
I certainly wouldnāt discourage you! Itās the profit motivated that should be held to a higher standard. If enthusiast growers want to make crosses thatās great. Itās just really hard to try to select for specific traits and keep genetics stable with a small gene pool. You can still grow great plants though.
Think of it this way; say you are growing 10 plants and you want to increase mold resistance. So you set up conditions that are conducive to mold growth. Hopefully at least one of your plants doesnāt develop mold and you use that one for your breeding program. The chances of all 10 developing mold is high though. But if you have 1,000 plantsā¦you are 100 more times more likely to find one that is what you are looking for.
As far as breeding in general. I believe good results will come from good practices including large sample sizes.
Iām not trying to disparage or discourage anyone. I just want more information about how some of the commercial breeders operate. There isnāt a lot of transparency.
Thanks so much @RickSanchez, those words i like. And please donāt think i didnāt get your point, i acknowledge the validity of your words. I will not sell my weed, i will not sell seeds, that i produce. I am a seed monger and a greedy pig with my weed. Donāt intent to make one penny off of this. Donāt need to really. I wanted to sell seeds from known breeders and do it like a store. But not my hobbie, i aim to enjoy my hobby not make it a task. And it would become a task if started to do it instead of fun, just to make money.