Looking for some water only soil advice and recipes😊

[Tinytuttle]

Yea a 1) 6lb bag for 25$ For a rich mineral mix you can do better and cheaper ! For sure

[Tommy_McCain]

Yeah no joke. You want a rich mineral mix?

Kelp. It has basically everything a plant needs but sodium (yes, even plants need a small amount of sodium).

@SillyHippy all of those are sold by a bunch of crooks. I can buy a soil for local organic growers with the same ingredients for $9 a bag (holy shit those guys are $30 DOLLARS A BAG!?!). Also, I know some on here will disagree, but in my world (agricultural growing of non cannabis) if coco is added, it is considered a “cost savings” for the soil manufacturer.
In other words, they add coco to save money. I don’t care what anyone says, peat is superior to coco in CEC. In other words, peat holds more nutrients than coco. Google it, it’s true.

Out of the three the SoHum looks the most shady. Stay away from that one the most. It has no ingredients on the bag and is the “High Times Best Potting Soil”. Both throw major flags for me.

They are all variations of a living soil recipe. You could do just as good on your own.

[Tommy_McCain]

Also, I work in marketing and sales. Using the word “hot” in the name of a soil is a horrible idea. Like putting “poison” in the name of a children cough medicine.

“Have you tried the new Robitussin Children’s Cold and Poison? It really works!”

[Tinytuttle]

Ya I thought was a terrible marketing ploy as well!

[corey]

So what are you saying @Tinytuttle with the no till methode? Would tilling in say the top 3 or 4 inches of soil be alright if I wanted to work in some organic matter and stuff like blood/bone meal and other organic amendments

[nube]

@Tommy_McCain

You have to watch if you use rice hulls as aeration. It decomposes and you get a mass of concrete like dirt.

Hey friend, where’d you read this? Do you mind providing a source or reference that isn’t related to “burned rice hulls used as concrete filler” which is the only thing I’ve seen?

I’ve been using rice hulls for four years now and never experienced this or anything close to it, nor have I ever read it anywhere. Aren’t you a synthetic promix grower who doesn’t use rice hulls anyway?

[Tinytuttle]

Just sprinkle it on top and gently rake it in to a depth of 2-3 inches is fine… that patch you worked up in the spring should never see another shovel or rototiller again Only disturbances should be when ya start putting another plant into the ground this fall after harvest one could start another Cover crop for it to be nice and ready next spring or a nice leaf mulch layer over the winter .

[Tommy_McCain]

I am a No Till Grower not a synthetic.

Tommy's Organic No-till Goji OG/Mountain Temple/ Triangle Kush S1

Harvested the BT yesterday. I’m really going to take my time on the cure. This is going to be excellent. [20200728_065606_edited - Copy]

I use rice hulls as a mulch because they decompose. I have used them in static worm bins (these sit for 6 months to a year) they break down over a year and my worms die because of a lack of aeration. The worm bins are like concrete. I have also used perlite and not had as many worms die off.

Yes, you can use rice hulls in organic grows where you remix your soil after every grow. But only using rice hulls as aeration can cause issues in a No Till pot over time. My worms and other microbes love to eat rice hulls.

[nube]

I’m sorry that happened to you, Tommy_McCain. You’re the first report I’ve heard of the compaction of rice hulls into concrete, anywhere, ever. Not to minimize your valuable experience, but are you sure it wasn’t due to something else in the worm bin? Do you have any pics or video of the consistency of it and perhaps a log of what you fed the worms that round?

Has anyone else anywhere experienced the same thing and positively linked it to the rice hulls, or is it just your anecdote? I ask because it’s so contrary to everything I’ve experienced and contrary to every use of it I’ve ever seen, heard, or read about.

Regarding using rice hulls for notill growing, every resource I’ve ever read, ever, recommends rice hulls as the only aeration or in conjunction with another type of aeration. They even reference specifically avoiding the soil compaction scenario you’re talking about. Here’s a few:

RiceHullGoldECHOAsiaNoteArticle.pdf (2.1 MB)

Make Your Own Soil From Scratch with 3 Proven Recipes

How To Use Rice Hulls As a Soil Amendment, Mulch, Bokashi, Biochar, or For...

You’d think if it routinely turned into concrete, none of these pros and soil scientists would recommend using it to do the opposite in soils and composts. That’s why I asked - it doesn’t make sense at all. Why would they steer all of us so obviously wrong if it even has a slight chance of doing what you said? It’s not like the retailers make much profit on this stuff. lol They could make a lot more just by selling us lava rocks and biochar.

Sorry, I thought you were synthetic because you commented about using Promix in this Hempy pot using Promix HP? thread. Don’t get a lot of organic growers using Promix since the same thing can be had for about 1/3 the price if you just buy peat.

[Tommy_McCain]

Below are two exact quotes from the pages you sent me. They are saying exactly what I am saying above.
I use Promix because I am a commercial greenhouse grower and I buy pallets of it. I don’t have time to mix that much for flowers and vegetables.

“In a garden, or field situation, you would typically do this every 2 or 3 seasons, as the aeration benefits should last multiple years. Depending on the microbial life in your soil, temps, humidity, crops being grown, etc… you may be able to extend the length of time between incorporating rice hulls into your fields.”

We recommend using around 30% aeration. If going for long term no-till we suggest using half Rice Hulls and Half Pumice or Lava Rock.

[Tommy_McCain]

I want to add to this. My beds are full of microbes. I feed my worms and microbes in my beds Rice Hulls. I refill my mulch (rice hulls) every grow because it is constantly getting eaten.
I’m not saying rice hulls are not good aeration, you have to watch because it decomposes over a year.

I have four pots that are 3 years old. If someone would have told me to just use Rice Hulls when I started them…I would have zero aeration left. Guaranteed.

[Tommy_McCain]

@nube

Why would they steer all of us so obviously wrong if it even has a slight chance of doing what you said?

You didn’t even read the article. What kind of expert are you? I’m open minded. When you sent me the articles I went and read them. They mention multiple times to watch because Rice Hulls break down over time in soil. Why would you attack me and say I’m “obviously wrong”? I’m speaking from actual experience.

[Seamonkey84]

Yea… I would think that using it as the only source of aeration for long term will mean you need to re-apply it into the soil. Once it breaks down, there’s no more aeration.

[nube]

@Tommy_McCain

Below are two exact quotes from the pages you sent me. They are saying exactly what I am saying above.
I use Promix because I am a commercial greenhouse grower and I buy pallets of it. I don’t have time to mix that much for flowers and vegetables.

“In a garden, or field situation, you would typically do this every 2 or 3 seasons, as the aeration benefits should last multiple years. Depending on the microbial life in your soil, temps, humidity, crops being grown, etc… you may be able to extend the length of time between incorporating rice hulls into your fields.”

We recommend using around 30% aeration. If going for long term no-till we suggest using half Rice Hulls and Half Pumice or Lava Rock.

Sorry man, maybe I’m dumb but I’m just not seeing it. Neither of those quotes say anything about

@Tommy_McCain

It decomposes and you get a mass of concrete like dirt.

due to rice hull decomposition. That was your claim I questioned. In fact, the first one says the opposite of compaction.

I did state that they recommend either full rice hulls or a mix including rice hulls, but no mention of concrete or compaction. They all mention the opposite of soil compaction by using rice hulls. They say the decomposition of it is good for the soil, not bad like you claimed.

Again, I’ve never seen anyone else say “rice hulls become concrete-like dirt” as you said. Has anyone else experienced this?

@Tommy_McCain

You didn’t even read the article. What kind of expert are you? I’m open minded. When you sent me the articles I went and read them. They mention multiple times to watch because Rice Hulls break down over time in soil. Why would you attack me and say I’m “obviously wrong”? I’m speaking from actual experience.

There was no attack of you. I asked questions about your claim because I can’t find any evidence to support it. I said nothing about you personally, so I guess I’m curious why did your mind go there?

I’m no expert, I’ve never claimed I was, and I don’t really get why you’d question my expert status. I don’t understand why you then started with the ad hominem attack against me. Are your claims above reproach? Are we not suppose to ask questions here?

I’m trying to learn here, which is why I asked. You said rice hulls turn into concrete-like dirt, but none of the resources I’ve ever read and nobody else has claimed this. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, which is why I asked if you have any references or pics/video of your valuable experience. I even liked all of your posts in an attempt to make you feel like I’m not attacking you. Yeesh. lol

Yes rice hulls decompose, but not into a hard concrete-like substance. Quite the opposite, all the other resources say rice hulls improve soil tilth, making soil fluffier over time. Breaking down does not equal “concrete like dirt” at least not in my mind.

I guess I don’t know what I’m missing, nor why you attacked me personally.

[Tommy_McCain]

Do rice hulls decompose? (I’m asking you.)
Do you use rice hulls?

Are you saying,
“rice hulls never break down and don’t need to be replaced?”
“you can use them as the only aeration in a no till pot?”

That article warns the same thing I warn above. If you use rice hulls in a long term bed, they will decompose.

More quotes from the same one.
“I have seen rice hulls last 3 to 5 years before most has broken down” My bed is over 3 years
“Depending on the microbial life” Totally agree with these statements

My microbe life destroys rice hulls in one year or less. I guarantee.

Are you saying that my beds do not require aeration after 3 years?

Are you saying my not till beds do not require aeration?

[Tommy_McCain]

You did not answer my questions.

[cannabliss]

huh that was intense and yes they do decompose and I would guess that would be good as in they break down into something idk carbon but they dont turn into concrete not themselves at least but once they ar gone they ar well, gone no morē aeration at which point you may have to do some tilling but I am very knew to no till lifeIt’s been a slow journey be safe out there folks

[EpiKatz]

A lot depends on the soils, climate, etc. I tried a minimalist experiment: 15 gal totes (drilled holes) filled with 1/2 Happy Frog (or any top quality potting soil) and 1/2 worm castings. A little composted cow poop on top, watered in with silica (stem strength) cal mag, and liquid bone meal (follow directions) that’s it. A few weeks before budding added a little potash. I like you’re adding worms. Give them something to munch on maybe cut up a banana peel, compost is always good for growing worms and plants. Good luck.

[SillyHippy]

I actually ended up doing a completely different recipe in a Grassroots bed.

Since then ive used a few water only mixed if using big pots you don’t need to top dress.

But I’ve used these soil mixes with good results but smaller pots usually have to top dress.

Langbenite - water soulable K bloom booster
Azomite
Alfalfa
Fisbone meal
Kelp meal
Water soluable kelp 0.0.17
Frass
444
power bloom 2.8.4
mineralized phosphate 0.9.0 add to bloom tea top dress the sludge

Cow sheep chicken kinds of manure and earthworms casting - 1- 2 cups per 10g bag.

2 tablespoons per gallon
(except water soulable kelp)

Water it all let it sit for 4 weeks or more then plant.

---

This is what I use now and like the most:

Instructions for Dr Earth:

The rule of thumb when growing organic cannabis with Dr Earth is to use 2 tablespoons per gallon of medium. That is when amending the coco to start, and top dressing every 3-4 weeks. With that being said, you may mix up your ratios however you please. You do not need to follow exactly how I do. Do keep in mind though unless you plan on feeding Calcium another way, you do always need the Tomato Veg (4-6-3) since it is your Calcium source.

When using Dr Earth you must water with a PH of 6.5-6.8 fluctuating between

Autoflower
Medium:
75% - 75% Coco Coir/25% Perlite
25% - Worm Casting

Dry Amendments: 2 TBSP/Gallon
•Amending Coco to start - 70% Tomato Veg (4-6-3) / 30% FlowerGirl (3-9-4)
•Day 24 (Pre-Flower) Top Dress - 50% Tomato Veg (4-6-3) / 50% FlowerGirl (3-9-4)
•Day 45-48 (Mid-Flower) Top Dress - 30% Tomato Veg / 70% FlowerGirl (3-9-4)

At this point you are basically on a cruise control of watering when dry until harvest. Every now and then you will have an autoflower that will go 100 days. If you happen to get to Day 70 and you are obviously not close, go ahead and top dress 30% Tomato Veg (4-6-3) / 70% FlowerGirl.

No Flushing since you are running organic dry amendments and flushing is basically just watering… which you already are.

Photoperiod
Medium:
75% - 75% Coco Coir/25% Perlite
25% - Worm Casting

Dry Amendments: 2 TBSP/Gallon
•Start in Solo Cup with 3/4 Teaspoon of Tomato Veg (4-6-3)
•Day 18 - Transplant to 2 Gallon container amended with 70% Tomato Veg (4-6-3) / 30% All Purpose (4-4-4)
•Day 42 - Transplant to 5 Gallon container amended with 50% Tomato Veg (4-6-3) / 50% FlowerGirl (3-9-4)
•Day 49 - Switch lights to 12/12
•Day 66 - Top Dress with 30% Tomato Veg (4-6-3) / 70% FlowerGirl (3-9-4)
•Continue to top dress every 2 weeks with last ratio but make sure to stop 2 weeks before harvest.

You can use the same concept of DR. Earth with gaia green 444 - 286 (just add some gypsum and galical rock dust, a high P, and a high K), roots organic terp tea, mr bs trees, down to earth the the 484 is to much N in flower ect…

[Rogue]

Or you can get certified organic soil / compost.

Add:

• grass clippings
• tree leaves
• dandelion
• thistle
• nettles
• horsetail
• horse manure
• banana peels (phosophor + potassium) and other fruit and veg kitchen scraps

For N you can sow vetch at same time as your cannabis and chop & drop the vetch when it starts flowering. It’s called “cover crop” or “green manure”. Research permaculture and you’ll find out a wealth of information that will save you a lot of money.

I keep sowing in the same pot while topdressing and use rainwater without any problems.