Hi everybody, I’m on a breeding journey, i made my own polyhybrids and f2s, i learned a lot since i last posted, some question still pop up, hope yall can help.
Next project, i want to produce some feminized seeds, if i apply CS to a feminized plant(s1), to make more seeds(s2), will it impact the quality of the offspring?
5 Likes
I believe you’ll be reproducing the mom and all her attributes but I’m not the expert
3 Likes
It’s more like hitting shuffle on the genetics repeatedly. Unless the mom is from an IBL, you’re gonna end up with a fair amount of variability; and, if the mom had any negative recessive traits that weren’t expressing because of the presence of a dominant gene that overwhelmed it, there’s an increasing possibility of bringing those traits out the deeper you get into selfing. That said, if you manage to find a mom without negative recessives, it can be a good way to lock in those traits for recombining with others of the same line down the road.
TLDR answer: yes, the s2 can be negatively impacted.
13 Likes
Got it, I’m better off finding a female in my stock f2 or polyhybrid crosses and feminize it, to achieve more uniformity and less quality loss.
Thank you sir.
2 Likes
Just to be clear, you can still lock in negative recessives by selecting F2s and breeding them, or end up with a homozygous recessive just from a F1 polyhybrid because the parents had recessives too… the main difference between S2 and F3 is just that you’re using a copy of the same genetics for the father with the S2. If those genetics have hidden negative recessives, it’s a bad thing. If those genetics are solid and carry no recessive traits, and the traits you wanted to pass on in the first place are dominant, it’s a good thing. It’s more of a “putting all your eggs in one basket” move, which is why I said it can be negatively impacted. It can also be positively impacted, but it’s tough to know which before doing it unless you happen to have mapped the cannabis genome. 
11 Likes
while in practice that might be true, you should give s2s a shot
s1 are kinda awesome because you can “explore” whatever behind the genetics. s1s are a gamble. sometimes you find a good stable breeding cut, sometimes its more of a crap shoot of genetic shuffling that leads to interesting daughter plants.
i have a gushmints cut that i have taken s1 from, theyre incredibly stable / uniform. i suspect if i took that cut to s2 or even s3 the child plants will probably be very representative of the original cut. on the opposite side of that though i have a cut that the s1 plants are all over the place, in a negative way. it was actually really neat to see though because there were odd pheno expressions i never saw on any of the plants from the original pack.
5 Likes
How many plants can you run at once?
If 10 or more, go ahead and s2!
Inbreeding and recessive genetics exist but they vary from cultivar to cultivar! Make the journey and find out!
4 Likes
Last time i did open pollination with 10 not all the same strain nor all regulars, i ended up with 3 males which i culled 2 and keep the most vigorous one. But if am doing s2 i will based it on one plant and let that one pollinated other females not of the same strain. So the cross comes out all females.
1 Like
thats a great plan. be super selective about which plant you select for reversal. the pollen donor is the most important part of that
3 Likes
Hello, its awesome you have started some breeding! In S1 seeds you will se around 10 to 25% of the offspring to be very like the parent. Since you are using poly hybrid they already lack majority of hybrid vigor, so thats not something you have to worry about. Cannabis have 10 chromosomes per parent(20 in total) and since you are selfing these will double. This means that you got a high chance for Double Recessive traits. This will happend every time you self a plant. The problem is that for every generation, you dont know how many of the Recessive traits that start to Double up in your plant which can get you in trouble down the road.
So in S2 you start to see more plant alike the S1 mother. I would say around 50 to 75% this is because of the Doubling of chromosomes. In my experience, you should take the 3 best S1 and make S2s. This is because when you try the S2 seeds from this mothers its very easy to see which have the best doubling of traits, Recessive and Dominant.
When you go to S3 you should be almost 100% inbreed(doubling of traits) and again when you make S3s, you should select multiple mothers and check the S3s for best result. When you found your best S3 seeds you can take a plant from the S3 and cross it to another S3(from another strain) and you will get a true F1 with large amount of hybrid vigor.
If you got any more questions just ask and ill do my best to educate you about it.
Pzzz out!
12 Likes
How do you get males(F gen) from crossing 2 S gens(fems)?
S=Female
S+S=S
No you wont get males while doing it like this. But If you have a male from a IBL and cross it to your S3 mother. It will give you the same vigor and give you males.
Edit:
S means selfed, so S x S = IX(incross, crossed to a sibling) or OX(outcross, crossed to another strain).
F means filial, which is a hybrid of two IBLs.
BX means backcross which is when you cross a offspring crosses to one of its parents.
Poly hybrid means two non stable crosses crossed to each other.
Pz 
7 Likes
Sry for Double posting but had to add this… Many people call Thin Mint Cookies x Sunset Sherbert a F1 cross. This is wrong wrong wrong… To have a true F1 or F2 or F3 the initial cross needs to be two true breeding lines. This means that each parent need to have low diversity and high stablity.
What Thin Mint Cookies x Sunset Sherbert are is an outcross(OX). Since you have 2 poly hybrids(high diversity and low stablity).
Pz
5 Likes
Isnt sunset sherbert thin mint cookies x pink panties, with pink panties being the same floridia og repeatedly used in cookies with I think some Burmese an most likley again something already in cookies. So I was wondering how do you class cookies x sherb ? I find some of those cookie crosses more than a little confusing, just shows though how diverse cannabis is an how each plant can take you in its own direction an how quickly the plant can change in so few generations despite almost being the same genetics still
1 Like
Actually it’s like a backcross…
Thin mint is a pheno of cookies and sunset sherbert is cookies x pink panties. But I get what you’re saying 
1 Like
I just took those two strains as an example of pointless poly hybrids. They all are the same small genetical makeup so…
Pz
3 Likes
It would only be a backcross is its to the exact same parent
Pz
2 Likes
Generally in other scientific disciplines, F20 is considered an inbred line because it’s slightly over 98% homozygous. 150 generations in, they’ll be getting towards isogenic, or 100% inbred.
4 Likes
I think in cannabis is considered ibl on the f5+.
1 Like
Yes, i know. But what they are talking about is inbreeding in large quantities. The more plants you have the long it will take to achieve inbreeding. They are touching this subject in the wiki article. I breeding is the doubling of chromosomes and you achieve this ALOT faster with selfing. As I said in my prev post, you need to have multiple parents to test each generation to secure those chromosome doubling and how you find out that you have alot of doubling is testing the offspring for stable traits. The higher % of stablity in the line, the more doubling you have.
So why would you want to have a larger population in breeding then? The larger the population you have, the slower the bottlenecking is. You want this slow bottle neck so that plants that grow well in different environment not all years are the same and you want something that produce good under any circumstance. Over 20 years of refinement, the cultivar have been tested in alot of different environments and when they are finaly total bottlenecked(word?). The inbreed line have a good chance of producing the same Amount If yield, year after year. Hope it clears up the confusion.
Pz
2 Likes