Recycled True Living Organics w/ Coco

What’s good fam!
Day 7 of 12/12. She needs a haircut!! Balls deep!

She’s going to start stacking in week 2 & 3 so normally at the end of week 2 is when I do a heavy defo. But I think end of 1 is good with this one, gonna give her a bit to recover and hit her again in 3-4. By the looks, definitely at least 10 week till chop. Shit… mabey longer. Her mom on the chocolope side went 14. Little bit of pinching in there too. I like to make those knuckles mid rift just below the auxiliary shoots. Keeps pushing em.


She looks sad now, but give her a week and it’s on like Donkey Kong.

Whipping up a Seed Sprout enzyme tea tailored for stretch to help the stacking with a little N, p/k and fulvic. Micronized fermented barley ss, corn ss, kelp, rock dust and fresh aloe with a bit of worm shit.
8 hrs into brew but at low temps of around 70f.


Added some LAB, PNSB, PSB, Trich, Bacillus, BTi, liquid innoc.taking it to the 72hr mark, possibly longer. I’m looking for heavy spewing foam, don’t much care for anything else, it’s all subsequent.

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Looks like them maters finally hit the rezo in the SIP’s.

Fabric ain’t too bad, but sure isn’t as nice as the SIP.

Group shot…

Plastic hard pots blow!

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Loving this journal! Packed full of information a knowledge.
I love seeing how others grow, especially when it comes to organics.

I’ve grown in organic living soil a few times now, and currently have a small tent setup with a 23(ish) gal bed.

Interesting to hear you mention about the annuals preferring a bacterial dominated medium as apposed to a fungal dominated one.
I know it’s usually good to have a balance of both. But I’d heard that the use of Mycorrhizal fungi in our gardens, comes from when people used to transplant trees, they would add Mycorrhizal, and somehowt that just ended up becoming the norm to add to soil.

I’ll admit I do add it to my soil, in small amounts when I transplant seedlings into the bed.

:v:

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Thank you kindly, I really appreciate that. I’m no guru grower, but it’s nice to hear that I’m passing on hard lessons learned without others having to learn the hard way.

Bact/Fungal, annual/perennial… annuals just aren’t around Ling enough to fully benifit from a myco fungal relationship. They certainly do help even with the “single season” type grows that alot of people do. Then they toss out the soil, but if you re-ammend then you can certainly get some benifits from them as they continue to colonize the soil and break down some of the harder, longer lasting ammendments like rock phosphate. But from a nutrient assimilation stand point for a single season, they are minuscule. I use and encourage alot of trichoderma and the two tend to compete and trichoderma always outnumbers and over populates, so for any annual that I’d grow I always include myco just for the sole purpose of maintaining a healthy diversity, but never rely on it. Bacteria are my main work horses, and provide the most benifits as they’re incredibly fast colonizers and the enzymatic activity is really what I’m targeting. But truth be told, there’s nothing wrong with encouraging a happy medium of bacteria and fungi beit myco and/or trichoderma. They’re all important for a competent microbial loop system.

They say that every tree on the planet is interconnected via myco fungi. The network is incredibly vast and that the trees can communicate with each other via this network. Pretty cool!

I wish more people would go the organic route, even if it’s just in pots. Beds are nice but that’s alot of soil and once your both feet in, it’s a commitment to keep going. Nice to hear your running a living bed. How are things in your neck of the woods? How do you maintain it?

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Cool info! Was super excited to setup a bed finally for this run, but looks like cost wins out and it’ll be just coco this go. Hopefully by the end/beginning of the year I’ll have a bed all setup and ready for some plants. Can’t wait!

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This current run is all new set up for me. I’ve just recently moved home and finally got round to putting up the tent. It’s much smaller than I’m used to though, like tiny haha. 75cmx75cmx120cm small.

The soil bed is 60cmx60cmx25, the largest container I could possibly fit in the tent :smile:
Basic mix of compost, pumice, worm castings and amendments (Kelp, neem, rock dust, Gypsum, birchwood biochar, fish meal and Mycorrhizal.)

I’ve been having to do a bit of tweaking with the temps and humidity as we’ve been having a bit of a heatwave here in UK for the last couple weeks. Think I’ve got it dialed in now although humidity is lower than I’d like at around 55-60% lights on.

I decided to try making some ferments last week too, and set up a 30litre tote with some nettles, Dock and dandelion leaves. Added some EM-1 and some a sprinkle of worm castings, well see how that does in a week or so.

I’ve also recently set up a worm bin a few weeks ago, and I’m working some amendments and food scraps through that to save me buying any more vermicompost.

Sorry this reply is a bit all over place, I’m typing with one thumb on my phone due to a gardening injury while trellising some runner beans :smile:

Here’s link to my attempted journal

:v:

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Thanks bud! Hey there’s nothing wrong with going coco in pots with liquid nutrients. Take your time with the bed, plan your ammendments and source quality compost and humus. Test your coco that you plan to use for accumulated sodium, If any, and double check your cal/mag saturation if it’s new. Reused coco will more than likely be saturated with cal/mag and any that you add won’t be robbed from the plants needs.

What’s your plan for nutrient management? Is it going to be straight coco or a peat mix?

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This is going to be straight coco fed with Jack’s. I’ll add some kelp, fulvic, aminos, and some yucca or something if I have some extra cash. Then I’ll start setting up a bed in a few months. Most likely use peat in my beds. Have a place for great compost and worms. Ordered a decent amount of stuff I need for the soil, but like you said, I want to do it all right from the start. I really miss soil and was hoping to do it this run, but unfortunately most things boil down to capital these days and I’m currently low.

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You can still pull a bumper crop out of a tight footprint, your certainly on the right track already.
I too like to see how others are handling their organics. I’ll be a frequent in your journal. Gotta make dinner here soon and I plan to do some reading in bed afterwards.

Crazy weather man, it’s up and down too here in the US, so I can sympathize with you there. Just a little food for thought… on the more drier days/weeks always keep in mind that the plant will take up more water. If you plan to drench with any teas go lite and dilute it. The higher the bacterial action/population the faster nutrients will become available and consequently taken up with the water the plant is really after. This can cause some burning, even if the tea itself is nonburning. Think about everything that’s already in the soil and has yet to be fully chomped on and released. Play with it, but definitely give 10-15 days in-between any tea. The plant will show you what it could use, and then focus on the soil biology and getting it reved up to make it more available by feeding the microbes some sugars and carbohydrates.

Imma big fan of ferments, I’m working on a complete KNF line currently. Sourcing is a bit of a challenge, but Amazon is great for the hard to find locally inputs. Everything you listed is a solid input, but I’m not totally sure on the castings being in with it. It may take away from the overall nutrient values and how it reacts with the fermentation process. Cane sugar or brown sugar, coconut sugar are essential for a good ferment and nutrient extraction. Make sure to give a little aeration alone the way if you added water and your extracting that way. Ive had some past batches get pretty stinky and all they needed was a good stir to get some 02 in there. But I’m definitely interested in the outcome. I’ve got alot of casting I could find another purpose for.
Homemade castings are the absolute best, no question about it!! Hell yeah man, your on the right track with keeping a high diversity of microbes for the LOS bed. I

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Ok, Jack’s definitely works and from I’ve seen of others, works quite well. Yucca is good stuff, but a drop or 2 of generic dish soap is helpful as a surfactant.

Don’t toss that coco out! Rinse it well to a final EC that’s low as possible. Peat will work well for you also, but if you have plans to buffer it using dolomite, and I’d suggest you do, only add the appropriate amount dolomite for the volume of peat, not the coco. Then it would be OK to mix the two, but for the coco portion I’d add crustacean and/or oyster and use Magnesium Sulfate for the buffer. But the time the dolomite runs out, you’d be up and running with the release of calcium you’ll need in the long run.

Compost, humus and castings are essential for organics. Worms are so cool, I take alot of pride in mixing and blending special little concoctions for them. I’ll load up ice cube trays with puree and freeze it for when I need it. Toss a couple cubes and your good, they seem to like previously frozen, fruits and veggies. The water expandes when it freezes and this will rupture any tissues of the food scrapes, then when they thaw they decompose much faster and the worms just eat that shit up quick!

Yeah, damn inflation on everything, I feel ya! But the good news is once your up and running, it’s easy sailing from there. You won’t look back, steady onward!!

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I’ll bare that in mind with the teas in hotter weather.
I havnt really gave them anything yet apart from a small dose of Biosys ( branded as an ‘instant microbial tea’) and some Aloe/Quillaja.

I should have mentioned the ferment is anaerobic, all soaking in 30ltr of water, I also added some molasses forgot to mention that.
I’ll have a check on it in a weeks time, but intention is to keep it anaerobic.
I’ve made a simple one way valve in the lid, with some aquarium airline tube and a jar of water, so that should help negate some of the stench until its ready, hopefully lol.

If it still smells really bad when it’s done, I’ll just use it on my outdoor fruits and veggies.

:v:

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Gotcha, I know exactly what your doing. I’ve had really good results with making extracts in that same manner. But boy do they reek like shit! Eitherway, the smell goes away fairly quick once it gets in the soil. If you can tough it out, id use some indoors too.

That’s really clever making an airlock to help with the odor and maintaining a sealed positive pressure. I do a similar variation but when I ferment 5gal carboy of lager in a spare refrigerator, but mine is more as a safety measure in the event I have a blow out, it prevents me from getting krausen( foam, hops, wort and yeast) everywhere.

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I’ve been reading through a lot of this. I have an earth box and a 15 gal I have setup as living soil beds, everything else I still just run nutes and coco/perlite. Been wanting to drift to just using soil with topdresses or something like Megacrop if I need a boost. Thanks for writing all this up.

Do you practice leaving most of the soil in the soil beds you have as a true living soil and the bags and what not you just dump and recycle or top dress that, too?

Is there a reason you use wood mulch instead of coco chips?

Do you run worms?

How often would you say you water with tea/microbe brew instead of just plain water?

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Morning buddy and welcome. I’m happy your getting something out of the thread, it’s my pleasure to share some insight where I can.

You certainly CAN use megacrop, the base is predominantly amino and that’s a solid source in all situations and styles beit dry or liquid. Alot of chelated nutrients there too. With living organics, you want to provide a food source for the microbes first and foremost, the plant is more less a secondary thought. But yes, you could always top dress with it as a booster if needed. You’ll be surprised tho, alot of the nutrients are still there from dry ammendments, so reving up the microbial action can provide that boost. But every application has its benifits. You may have an instance where you fell short on 1 or more ammendments or just need a little pick up based on a finicky strains preference. Just remember tho, if your not encouraging or boosting microbial activities, they have nothing to do and you may get pH swings that lean heavily in one direction or the other. The microbial loop is a food chain essentially, and if your not encouraging the microbes to multiply, populations get diminished and the natural harmonious balance will get outta wack.

I leave my soil where it is, but for me… I have approximately 1.8 cubic yards worth just in the 4x8 bed @20" deep so it’s not feasible really to remove and re-fortify. I just add to the top, or once a year till in New ammendments within the top 10"
You could certainly save substrates from previous grows, bin it up, ammend the shit out of it and add that once it’s had a 30+ day cook. Organics is very forgiving in that aspect, the main thing is to not have a shortage of anything, and abundance is ok and the plant will take what it needs, when it needs it.

I use wood mulch for a couple reasons. The main reason is to help facilitate the nitrogen cycle and also to make humus as the soil ages. The other would be to help lower the rate of evaporated moisture of the soil. It helps to lock in and maintain moisture making a more even distribution throughout. I also found that by removing the plastic pallets from under my fabric bed and putting it directly on the floor, I can maintain a multi-layer moisture levels, similar to an auto-pot or sub-irrigation. Gravity works with me now instead of against. With all that room in a big bed for roots to grow, they now have options and created a multi functioning root system. Some for the damp airy soil, some for the moderate and some for the more wetter at the very bottom. But for anyone who is going to run a large bed in the manner that I do, I would definitely recommend using blumats and incorporate the blusoak hose. I use the Maxi 9" probes/sensors which works well for the 20"deep bed.

I do run worms, I have a worm tower I made out of a 30" long, schedule 80 pvc pipe. Drilled holes in the bottom 20" and have a threaded cap on top. This is where I’ll toss scraps and other goodies. But even without a tower, the worms will still find the soil to be a happy home, just make sure you feed them and don’t over water or they’ll try to escape.

I don’t use tea now, as much as I have in the past. Mainly because of the constant level of hydration controlled by the blumats. But if you incorporate them, you can always dial them back to maintain a dryer soil that can be irrigated with a tea. Teas can be used every other week or every 3 weeks. Multi facet with that either to give a boost of particular elements for veg/ bloom or just to simply increase their populations for a heavier dominance and the benifits they each provide, not just to the plant but to the soils health.
But I for the vast majority of any grow give just plain water 0ppm.

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Hey,

I was just curious if using coco chips in a mix could replace pumice/rice hulls and retain more moisture? Just something I was wondering about and I’m sure you have the info of why, or I’m guessing more likely, why not. Thanks for any info!

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Morning buddy, I don’t know about “replacing”, but coco chips help on multiple levels. They’re moisture retention is a bonus and they do help with drainage/ aeration. But like anything organic, they too will decompose, much slower than any finer variation of coco, but still. I’ve use alot of par boiled rice hulls in my day, they didn’t last very long IMHO, but they do help with drainage in the short run.

Keep in mind that if your going to recycle your substrate, it will get finer in texture as time goes on, the addition of pumice is essential. And not just for the “now”, but in 2 yrs when your base is starting to compact from decomposing, you’ll be glad you have it already incorporated. Far better than perlite, honestly. Perlite will just crush and powder out in time. You can’t go wrong with real aggregate either, so incorporate over time stuff like quarts and granite. These can be found as water filtration media and purchased in 80 lb bags. Ultimately it’s all about diversity and the attributes each input will add, beit short/long term, or pro/con. The beauty of it all, is there’s always next season or next run and this gives you some leeway and flexibility to make adjustments to your mix.

I literally have damn near everything you can possibly think of in my substrate. Added at one point or another over the course of many years. On a side note…
I’ve had very good luck using chocolate bean shells/ hulls for drainage, and as a mulch. Gives off a very pleasant sweet chocolate smell. If used as a mulch they “lock together” and really help with even water distribution. Fungus gnats have a very hard time trying to get through a 3" layer of that. Not to mention the trichoderma that will colonize it, will envlope and consume the larva and eggs. I highly recommend using them. But like everything organic, it will gradually decompose and provide future benifits.

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Not a while lot going on yet. I think next time I do any defoliation, I won’t get drunk first. It seems I man handle her a bit. She’s picking the pace back up now. Next week should be much h more impressive with the stacking. But… she’s healthy and happy.

I decided to give a go and lay down some seed for a living mulch/ cover crop. This is a first for me, and I basically just winged it, using common sense. First I pulled back the cypress fines. Wow, Holy shit does it smell like mushrooms, big time. Can’t say I’m complaining tho.

Roughed up the surface a little bit so I could water in the seeds properly. I put down about a 1/4 lb and soaked everything well with 0ppm and 1/4tsp of soluble fulvic acid.


Next I grabbed some of the really whispy cypress fines and lightly dusted the seed, I believe this will help to allow more moisture to make constant contact, ensures better germination despite all the circulation from fans.


Finally I sprayed just 0ppm water onto the cypress fines to hydrate them. Water retention for better germination. Just makes sense I suppose. I don’t have any straw left, so I made due with what I got.

Seed I used

Hopefully it all takes because this will be tilled in in the next few months. After harvest, I’ll get the other side going. I think mabey a rotation between the two side. We’ll see how it all goes.

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Maters are blowing up in the last 4 days. Time to start pruning and thin this shit out some. Worst thing you can do is have nappy overlay. Provides a home and hiding spots for pests and makes it harder for the plant to breath with all the tangled lapping leaves. Looks like the tea I brewed up really helped some… despite the weather being shitty, they sure took off.

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Noticed you have the 13 seed mix, apparently that’s the magic number for permaculture when it comes to diversity.
I’m running on like 3 at the moment if you count the main crop as well :smile:.

Been tempted to get some herbs going in there as well though, maybe a basil or even some mint. Perhaps camomile as well as I’m quite enjoying camomile tea at the moment.

:v:

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What a great informative read. Some really knowledgeable handy tips and advice thank you @McShnutz, I will be using this as a reference with inputs and general soil health/building.

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