Seed Run Co-op: Bodhi's Cheech Wizard **Closed**

[Gpaw]

@Upstate really knows his stuff, he researches everything like an AI.

It’s always a pleasure to read his posts.

Cheers
G

[Brandon7467]

What medium are you using, living soil? I’m just curious because they responded very well. I’m currently wrapping up a project with a friend using living soil for the first time. It’s actually worked quite great so far. Although, they have not turned out quite as well looking as yours. Btw, anyone who wants my spot that engaged, let me know.

[Sketchy530]

[nube]

@LegsMahoney

I was asking more if you have a rule of thumb for how much of the male’s top you cut off in order to do the pollinations

Nope, no rule of thumb other than it be big enough to justify putting in water, and also encompassing the majority of the top cluster of flowers for each branch. I only do this when I have males that don’t all flower within a few days of each other. It’s a fine line. If you have only one male or your males start dumping pollen simultaneously, might as well just keep them in with the females. The biggest thing with seed production is to wait to pollinate until at least after day 21F (from flip), and better starting closer to day 28F for modern hybrids, to maximize seed production from the number of available pistils. Seed size doesn’t matter for much of anything, so more smaller seeds is better if doing a preservation run. Also, what @minitiger recommended with the paper or surface underneath is useful for collecting and saving pollen. I strongly recommend doing the collection and consolidation of pollen process outside on a zero wind day, because this stuff gets everywhere. And use a technique similar to what @HolyAngel graciously described.

@Brandon7467

I’m still learning

Aren’t we all. As my name implies, I’m a perpetual newbie. Also, it’s Spanish for clouds, which is where my head is usually at.

@api312

I’m going to be honest and say getting tagged in a very critical message 45 minutes after signing up for a seed run and being called a leach was pretty off putting to the point I felt I had to withdraw.

I’m sorry you feel that way. In the pantheon of critical posts, I feel like that’s pretty low on the list to ask people to follow the instructions. But it’s your choice and I’m just sorry to see you go. So be it. I wish you the best of luck in all your future endeavors.

@Greenhighlander

WTF is with all the extra drama that seems to show up in these co op runs?

I brought it on myself by publicly asking people to follow the instructions if they hadn’t, so I take full responsibility. Can’t please all of the people all the time. I spent another two posts explaining myself and, if that wasn’t enough for people, they’re free to carry on to the next place. I’d rather them engage and participate, but if they can’t be bothered AND they got upset when I pointed it out, that’s OK. They’re not bad people or anything. Maybe they were just having a bad day. Maybe I was. Oh well. Moving on… I hope you’ll do more seed runs in the future @Greenhighlander & @HolyAngel

@Cormoran

Just as long as you’re not demanding good conversation, because then I’m gonna be sitting here scratching my head for the next week coming up with something useful to say.

Haha thanks for the laugh!

@mike28086

I’ve been trying to order from that thing for over a year now, don’t work. I’m not trying to be a dick about it, but if we are going to be honest about it, there it is.

I’m sorry to hear that. As @ChronicMcBudz mentioned, it’s a slightly different thing for these free preservation seed runs. Please see the link he posted. If you still can’t get it worked out, please PM @Sebring and see if he can help you out. It seems to be working for everybody else, so there’s gotta be some way to figure it out.

@keene

I was not impressed with most of the flower.

Have to agree on dispensary/retail weed. I only ever bought weed a few times from the shops, before I had my med card and started growing again after a few years hiatus, and while some of it was darn good, most of it is pretty average. There’s a shop in Telluride, CO, that has a bunch of bodhi strains…I got his Acapulco Gold there and it was the best commercial weed I’ve ever had outside of dead tour. Even the best dispo pot grown from the best genetics is still only about 80-90% of the best you can do in a well-tended homegrow. This is why we gotta OverGrow! And then give away lots of seeds and flowers to pay it forward!

@Cormoran

Anyway, I think we’re drifting away from discussion of Cheech Wizard and into politics.

I don’t mind. I like thinking about everything, and you bring up very good point. I’m happy to go there. I do want to note there are some places doing organic pot production in a commercial setting, and the overall consensus seems to be that their flower is superior. I think a lot has to do with the varieties chosen for production - as you say, homogenization. Just like the varieties of veggies sold in the supermarket, a lot of commercial cannabis is selected and grown primarily for its commercial characteristics. That youtube link posted above about the seed preserver is a great example - just 50 or 100 years ago there were hundreds of varieties of veggies being grown in the US; now there’s only a handful of each type, if we’re lucky. The people right here, us, we are the people who can prevent that happening to cannabis. Maybe not in the dispos, but within our circles and in our families. That’s one of the best parts of growing, to me - being able to share the bounty with others! Also, last point, I think this is mostly a Western problem, because India feeds 1.3B people mostly without petrochemical & monoculture agriculture - they’re generally fairly sustainable and they have a really diverse selection of varieties in each state. And there they have a thriving local market, too, despite the encroaching 21st century technology and conveniences.

@50State

Sorry, I didn’t read the part about being active in the thread inroder to receive the seeds so I removed myself from the list. I’ve been really busy with the bodyshop, life, and such.

Haha man I only included you there as a playful jab because you haven’t responded to the last few times I’ve tagged you in other posts. Please sign back up!! How’s it growing? Did you ever do that seed increase with the donated bodhi blue dream cross I sent? The car work is looking really good. Damn! Impressive.

@SkunkHunt101

Sorry to not have spoken much.

No worries. We’re all ears! Please, join in!

@Mithridate

I remember Tom Hill saying he never culled plants the first time around, not even hermies. He talked about how he lost 2 exceptional expressions of his haze by culling “weaker” plants early on.

And an example from personal experience: when I f2’d a pack couple years ago I excluded a male and a female from the open pollination. This female looked and smelled weird, grew slow and I could never keep her happy. Turned out she was the keeper, I had a clone of her and 2 males so I did a 2nd batch of seeds. Now the f2s are somewhat incomplete, I will never know what I lost…heh

I’d never heard that about Tom Hill, but I really appreciate your great personal anecdote. Same to you @Oldjoints Thanks for sharing! I get it if people have restrictions and just want to plow through their seeds with a Darwinian perspective, but they also gotta remember that we’re looking for those hidden gems, and sometimes the best and most unique specimens are ones you wouldn’t normally take a second look at because they don’t have “the look” that people are conditioned to prefer. Take, for instance, the “cookies” style that’s so prevalent today. I personally don’t like growing or smoking tiny, super dense buds, I feel like there’s literally no benefit to anyone when growing those kind of plants. I also just don’t find cookies strains to have the effects I’m looking for, so I am biased. Each unto their own.

@Purple-N-Hairy

Truly mind-blowing stuff!

Yeah I’m stoked to see how his CoSM (Chapel of Sacred Mirrors) turns out. https://www.cosm.org/

@riahgorf_1

I am a supporter of overgrow

I think I speak for everyone when I say thanks for supporting the site. Please join in the fun and engage with the others here froghair!

@Cormoran

I think he works with enough landraces to be a valuable source of empirical evidence, since there’s not enough real science yet to tell one way or the other.

I wonder if it’s some specific varieties that seem to push things this way, or if the local terroir that has any influence? I don’t have nearly enough experience to say someone’s wrong, but I’m definitely still looking for clues to the answer…the truth is out there!

@Brandon7467

What medium are you using, living soil?

Yessir, recycled organic living soil. This stuff has been used and reused from outdoor veggies to indoor houseplants and, of course, the weeds I’m cultivating in the tent.

@Sketchy530 lol I don’t get the reference in your pic!

[Sketchy530]

Ahhh lol its bcuz i got called out for not participating lol! Im here Im here, Thanks for all your hard work Nube youll see alot more of me

[mike28086]

@nube

If you still can’t get it worked out, please PM @Sebring and see if he can help you out.

I have, a couple of times, he has said it was a russian bot problem, he reset, that didn’t work, I PM’d him, he reset it again, still can’t order, it keeps asking for a password that I never set up! when I ask about it, all that was said was, that it was reset and it should be fine, well, it isn’t. I would just like to be able to get some seeds again, that’s all.

regards,

[Cormoran]

@nube

I think a lot has to do with the varieties chosen for production - as you say, homogenization. Just like the varieties of veggies sold in the supermarket, a lot of commercial cannabis is selected and grown primarily for its commercial characteristics.
The people right here, us, we are the people who can prevent that happening to cannabis.

Yep. Most commercial veggies are selectively inbred 20 generations or more… almost unheard of with cannabis, other than some of the large hemp producers perhaps. And I agree, that’s one of the interesting things about OG - even aside from the preservation runs, all the pollen-chucking happening ensures there’ll be plenty of variety, without the glitz and hype and big bank accounts of IG.

@nube

I wonder if it’s some specific varieties that seem to push things this way, or if the local terroir that has any influence? I don’t have nearly enough experience to say someone’s wrong, but I’m definitely still looking for clues to the answer…the truth is out there!

Yeah, it could be the local environment in some cases… the punnett square isn’t the whole answer, because epigenetics can push things one direction or the other. You don’t find many pure ruderalis varieties with high THC, as far as I know.

[keene]

Great Sunday morning review! I enjoyed it and I do not want to be in Darwin;s Waiting Room so I will keep reading and responding

[api312]

@nube

I’m sorry you feel that way. In the pantheon of critical posts, I feel like that’s pretty low on the list to ask people to follow the instructions. But it’s your choice and I’m just sorry to see you go. So be it. I wish you the best of luck in all your future endeavors.

I’d love to still hang around if I’m welcome (happy to sit out from getting and seeds as penence for my low participation though if that helps.) I’m not sure I’ll be able to help myself either way (even not being in the pura vida run I still had to follow along!) Your grows and what you do for the community are a beautiful thing and I’m just one grumpy guy. Your spirit of generosity is what OG is all about!

[Mithridate]

There may have been a clean-up on aisle 5, but I had taken screenshots the first time around anyway

Ghost protocol is banned Tom Hill

[LegsMahoney]

@nube that response must have taken you forever to type man, thank you for clarifying your methods, I feel like I’m shakily armed for this first pollination thanks to you and all the other good folks here on the site. Hope you all have a restful and energizing Sunday for the week ahead.

[DougDawson]

Thanks for the update @nube , things are looking stellar. Appreciate all your hard work not only growing but keeping everyone up to date. Really cool.

[Vagabond_Windy]

@nube

Also, it’s Spanish for clouds, which is where my head is usually at.

Just as I suspected
Back in the RIU days I always wondered if it was Spanish for cloud.

[PetalPowerseed]

what am i looking at here? she get shot?

[Upstate]

@nube

still haven’t seen what I consider definitive proof that unguided pollination lowers THC content to hemp levels over time. We only really have speculation, but it’s a good discussion. And, let’s not forget, THC content is only a small part of what makes good weed good

It definitely doesn’t get lowered to hemp levels, but the very potent plants pop up much less often, with other cannabinoids replacing thc in some cases… Lolab Valley is an undomesticated landrace from Kashmir, at around 33/34 degrees latitude, documented on IG by Indian Landrace Exchange. It’s hash is very potent, full hybrid type effect, with a varied thc/ cbd ratio, but the buds are real scraggly, very similar to my favorite Oaxaca buds in appearance…(possibly another wild bit of genetics)
I think that what cannabinoids end up being present in the population probably has to do with what the plants were when pollination was guided. And certainly latitude has a lot to do with it. Once you get up to a certain latitude plants become CBD dominant. The farthest north I have heard of thc in wild plants is in Kazakhstan at 44 North. Plants there have been documented having 7% thc and 7% cbd. It’s possible thc plants are found further north but I haven’t heard of anything yet. Sure would like to check out Mongolia.

[LegsMahoney]

Never heard about a correlation to cannabinoid profile and location like that, that’s super interesting!

[Leaf]

Thx for all your hard work bud. Guess I just generally don’t post too much. Always trying to spread the love and karma like OG style but life gets busy

[Upstate]

@nube

watched a documentary or two about this and it’s INCREDIBLE. Like truly mind blowing. You’re 100% right about the silent dialog happening in the plant kingdom, and we’re only now trying to listen. It’s crazy how much modern science has turned its back on ancient wisdom only to “rediscover” it years later. Plants have thoughts, feelings, emotions, and conversations too…just not in the same ways we do. Stuff like this makes me shake my head at the hubris of humans thinking we’re the only intelligent life on this planet.

I’d like to recommend a book called “The secret life of trees”. It’s a great read. Unfortunately i can’t go through the woods and break a branch without feeling a little guilty now. There is still so much we have to learn.

[Upstate]

Also of interest is that the size of the resin head and amount of resin increases with latitude/cold in wild plants. It’s just that the resin becomes less potent, containing more cbd the further you go north (and presumably South too?)

[catapult]

@Upstate

Unfortunately i can’t go through the woods and break a branch without feeling a little guilty now.

Ah but you could! If your hiking through the woods and your intentions and thoughts are guided w care and concern; and you happen to break a tree branch, or gather some leaves or flowers from some living plants; I don’t think you should feel guilty. They might like the attention you give them, or at least be accepting of your apologies and/ or appreciations you could offer them:)

I love this conversation, btw! I don’t know if plants feel pain at breaks of the flesh the way we do. But, I do believe they contain complex internal dynamics of intelligence and the potential to interact and engage (ie communicate) w the living world around them in ways that
we humans don’t really understand, yet.

Another book on this subject, if anyone else is interested, is called “The secret teachings of plants” by S. Buhner.

Somewhat related, I often wonder in amazement about, how the systems of cannabinoid receptors developed in humans that respond to this one specific plant? This one, both unique, and phenotypically extremely diverse plant. That has the ability to heal a wide variety of human ailments. Kinda blows my mind.

Also, really loving this conversation about the influence of environment and latitude on cbd / thc levels as well as the role of selection vs “re-wilding” and the question as to whether all cannabis would revert to hemp, in the wild. Thanks for sharing these insights @Upstate. What you say makes a lot of sense. It would seem to me that the truth of this matter is likely to be far more subjective to specific individual circumstances than subject to a hard-line rule for all cannabis plants across the globe to act one certain way.

I hope I’m not veering too far off topic @nube and thanks again, things are looking great, this cheech wizard run has been a fun follow and great conversation IMO:)