. In big containers many pure sativas grown from seed can get really nicely developed…like they do where they are from, often growing there with only 12 or slightly more daylight hours. But It’s the container size that makes the most difference, as you mentioned.( strong lights too) In smaller containers you need more veg time for topped plants to recover and start growing again. With big containers im not so sure. I think flowering from seed you could still get a twice or 3+ times topped beastly bush of a plant from full on Sativa genetics if you start in a good sized pot or do well timed transplanting, up potting frequently. Alot of what’s been out there isn’t pure though, especially many of the genetics sold as pure in the not so distant past. These likely need that veg as they dont have that true Sativa vigor, and that longer veg works well because you (likely) have great genetics. You’re going to get good smoke from your efforts. However, If growing pure Sativas from the source, you’ll want to grow as many plants as you can, to find the great ones, and in that case yield isnt necessarily a concern. I agree a vegged Sativa can have more power in at least some, and possibly in many cases more than those that get no veg, depending on where in the world they are from now, and also where they were from beforehand. Faster Sativas benefit from at least a short veg, no doubt. A 12 weeker would have poor potency and poor development flowered from seed. But something like Vibes Collective Lambsbread or a real Thai needs no veg to attain both great size and power. It just needs that root room from birth. Nearly half a year is a long enough grow anyway lol. With a 30-45 day veg, an 8 week flowering indica does take almost as long to grow( 12-14 weeks instead of 13-16) as Oaxaca does from seed. The whole " it takes the same amount of time" mantra is a good argument to get otherwise hesitant people or someone on the fence to take the Sativa plunge and broaden their horizons. Many will benefit greatly by doing so. I believe at our core the population would likely prefer sativa and indica in about equal %, like with everything else. 25% would like Sativas,
25% would prefer broadleaf, and 50% would like a good hybrid. Right now Sativa lovers are greatly underrepresented. I know theres many more that love it but dont know that yet. They just need a nudge. Telling someone they are going to yield landrace Sativas from seed like they would a hybrid is disingenuous. However, you don’t need a veg to get your feet wet. You’re going to get a moderate yield at best with most landrace Sativas growing them indoors for your first time, no matter a veg or not. The major downside of growing lots of sativas from seed in a small space is that when you find that keeper, you’ll wish it had been bigger and provided you more to smoke. (Take cuttings or reveg.) A major downside of only growing a few bigger landrace plants is that you might not find something you’ll want to grow again at all. You might end up with a few big shitty plants. Another thing you pointed out is the stretch. Major difference with all sativas, worked or not. After a good veg or as cuttings, the stretch is much more manageable and you’ll indeed have less stem to deal with…and nicer colas because all the flowers are in the light and are given top priority by the plants. One can grow even an equatorial Sativa with lower ceiling heights doing this. Just choose wisely first what you grow. Make sure it’s good if you go this route of flowering vegged longflowers. It takes a long time. Worth it, no doubt.
The Panama show has begun 
Hebe is Panama Red from Cryptic Labs- Huesos x Old Timer’s Haze and it is from Pandora Seedbank. Pandora Seedbank attempted to bring back the purer sativa experience by selecting the most stable and narrowest of the NLD plants available of these Cryptic Labs Panama to the Old Timer’s Haze in an effort to bring back something similar to the 20 plus week flowering Panama Red from the 60s and 70’s.
Hera, on the other hand, is a selection of the most longest flowering and most NLD looking plants from Cannabiogen Panama crossed to the same selection of Old Timer’s Haze as Hebe.
The other Panama Haze would be Ace’s Panama Haze. Thus, we will have a total of three different Panama x Old Timer’s Haze selections from three different Panama lines and two different Old Timer’s Haze lines.
The others, as can be seen, are Ace Panama and Golden Tiger v3 Thai Leaning version x Panama, and tomorrow I will put two of each of Snowhigh Double Panama and 1971 Panama, both gifted by @Upstate with whom I am very grateful for these seeds, on the cup of water.
That’s a collaboration of khalifa and Cali frosty genetics it has nothing to do with ace they are just distributors in this case for khalifa genetics. Ace seeds had no part in breeding frosty purple freak…
This leaf mutation has been available to the public since late 2019 and a couple of breeders have made their own freak strains using the original released strain freakshow by shape shifter of hi-elevation genetics
Ye I do know that ,maybe I should have made the post more specific.
Sorry
P J
Nanan Bouclou. @YoBigdaddy
10 weeks in flower, Sativa Sativa…doing that second flowering thingy…ye @ChongoBongo …you be about right 12-14 weeks.
She is turning into a lovely looking plant with those tight acorn shaped buds…ye Ricooo
P J
Good luck on your endeavors amigo.
Some great stuff here…I be following along.
P aj
Damn that looks good!
Sure does. What’s the nose on her?
@anon3323625 I’m glad you’re getting into those. I think you’ll make a really nice Panama Haze with that lineup. I look forward to your progress.
Still strong diesel smell…I smelt it as soon as I got home.
Right I got a question, unfortunately …while I was away …we had a outage of the electricity…it was of when I got home…and I found out from niebours the lights were of for abut 36 hour…there six weeks old and be flipped soon…Do you think this could affect them being in darkness for 36 hours ( never had that happen before) ???
I think a god idea whatever is to flip them tomorrow morning.
P J
Personally i’ve done 24 and 48 hour darkness before changing the light schedule/timing with no issues
If the cycle is returning to normal, it will not affect them if you ask me … but beware of mold depending on your humidity % and air circulation.
I see too much Indica in this Haïtiian x PNG cross 
(was said previously by others), that’s why i think mould can be a concern.
I’ve done a double dark cycle myself and I do think flowering time might have sped up a little…and sometimes I wonder if it didn’t speed it up alot. That viet black cutting I picked at week 8, And other experiences i’ve had have made me wonder. My previous grow of her cutting I picked at week 12 or 13. She looked Similar at week 8 after a double dark cycle. Might be nothing, might be something to it. I had other stuff flower faster than when its grown by others, and figured it was the sun, now I’m not so sure. In each case i had one or more double dark cycles. If we lose power, I always choose an extra long dark cycle Until the lights are on a full 12 hr cycle like they used to be. If power goes out during a light cycle, I shut the whole room down so the power doesn’t come on giving me a two or three hour light cycle or something weird like that. Better to leave them in the dark. Basically nearly every year something Indoors is in a light cycle flowering at night and I want to start bringing it outside to flower. My cycle is 12 hrs off from outdoors. Leaving them in a light cycle at night and then putting them in another one during the day would delay flowering imo,( typically im already on 12 12 cycle)so i always do the opposite. Instead of lights on after a 12 hr dark period, it’s a double dark period to get the plants on cycle during the day.
Just lookout for nanners over the next week. I don’t remember issues, but lookout.
I always wondered about that with this cross. Whether there is Indica there or not.
Guadalajara week 12ish. This plant is pretty damn awesome.
One of the nicest Mexican plants I’ve grown, granted my experience is limited to Oaxaca and Huixtepec mostly. I’m going to run thru a bunch of offspring from her to get a good look first, but I’ll definitely be sharing seeds at some point. I want to make sure of it’s pedigree first.
Ye you see the indica on the first fan leaves…very broad…and they thin down as the plant grows.
I would agree there is indica there.
Ye mould…im well aware of…we are transitioning to the rainy season here…So anything flowering in future in the greenhouse will need to be watched…I cut my grow down in the wet season.
Thanks for the responce…
P J
can’t wait to see what they do under the az sun 
@DesertHeartGardens That’s some beautiful looking soil you have there and those are some lucky plants to be in those conditions with that nice weather! Can’t wait to watch the show unfold😁
Just old recycled soil that’s been built up over a few years been just getting better Over time just threw down a bunch of lentils to get some cover crop going going to order some dichondra or clover too should have enough time to grow into some nice plants and get established before the heat comes 
think these 100 gallons are the way to go
Nice healthy start on those @DesertHeartGardens. Planning to top or shape them? Or just let them run straight up naturally?
Any idea on how long these should typically take to flower out @Upstate? Looking like a few more weeks at least.
Going to let them get established then going to just do some light lst to help get them stocks to be some tree trunks