Triploidy vs trifoliate

Advanced Techniques
#1

So a triploid has extra set of chromosomes.
A trifoliate has 3 nodes at each junction as opposed to the usual 2. I know that much.

Now, is it safe to say that a trifoliate is the result of triploidism? IE. does every triploid produce a trifoliate?
Or is every plant you see that is trifoliate a triploid?

Please dont guess or reference junk posts where someone just calls it one or the other.
Im looking for an actual explanation, reference to a study, etc… as the only trye way to know woukd be through someone doing the genetic testing and cross referencing the two.

Thanks

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#2

Was reading that one of the most common results of colchicine testing to create polyploid plants was the trifoliate arrangement, which lead us to conflate the two and start calling trifoliates, polyploids.

Let me see if I can find the study. Disclaimer: Can’t find info to support this, so this should not be quoted. lol. :disappointed_relieved: :joy:

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#3

Do you mean 40 chromosomes instead of 20 ?
I’ll look and see what I can dig up , it’s a very rare mutation to have extra chromosomes if not induced threw gene manipulation early on. The plants I’ve had that grew there branches instead of two did not keep that pattern once they were in flower and did not exhibit any other traits that would be expected.

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#4

Here are a few links to research on the subject

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2018/11/05/458083.full.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj5hKGZ_6vmAhXPvJ4KHbKUBiwQFjAEegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw3hfsTJFMs-Hk5IqKvKCUfM

Little bit off subject but explains why phylos is collecting data and many others are doing genetic studies.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2018/11/05/458083.full.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj5hKGZ_6vmAhXPvJ4KHbKUBiwQFjAEegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw3hfsTJFMs-Hk5IqKvKCUfM

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#5

Oh yeah, and we mean Whorled Phyllotaxy, which is the placement of branches along the stem, not Trifoliate which is how many fingers each leaf has.

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#6

I have never seen anything that shows whorled phylotaxy or fasciation being related to ploidy, both of which are frequently (mis)attributed to it.

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#7

Yeah I’m having trouble finding a link between the two. Would hate to find out I imagined reading that and now I’m spreading bullshit info. lmfao. Definitely could be a situation of authority bias on my part.

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#8

Yes correct, whorled Phyllotaxy.
See even my dumbass trying to clear up the subject facked it up lol

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#9

Plant terminology is a super complex subject alot of people are still trying to wrap there heads around. That coupled with the fact that cannabis was not allowed to be studied on a broad scale so is rather absent from common botanical journals. I will say that I have worked as a botanist and was a certified arborist for many years. My major in school required me to have chemistry, biology and many other classes that turned out to be beneficial to growing cannabis. Long story short cannabis is the platypus of the plant world. If you were to follow standard routes of plant identification and the order of the plant kingdom you will find that cannabis can fit into several differant categories. I think the aliens brought it and it was a plant already tailored to contain aspects of many others.

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#10

Medicinal plants are gifts, small miracles in there own. Regardless of were they come from or how we learned to use them I am grateful for there presence. I also feel that screwing with nature is not nice and often has unforeseen negative consequences. No frankenweed for me.

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#11

I am interested if you do find a reference. I have my share of false memories, so no worries if it is one of those.

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#12

Trifoliate means there are three leaves. For example clover is a trifoliate plant.

Triploid means the plant has three sets of chromosomes. In cannabis, these plants are sterile and are not suitable for breeding.
Have you guys ever heard of "terminator"seeds? There were a few breeders making them some years back. Terminator seeds are the result of crossing a true tetraploid with a diploid. The resulting offspring will grow like normal cannabis plants, but they will be sterile plants naturally and attempting to breed with them will fail every time.

Whorled Phyllotaxy is an anomaly in cannabis and means that there are three leaves/branches at each internode. I’ve grown a lot of whorled Phyllotaxy cannabis plants in my time and think they look very cool when they grow. I have pics… I’ll see if I can locate them and post them for you guys to see.

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#13

Please allow me to clarify a bit more for easier understanding.

Polyploidy plants are plants that have more than two sets of chromosomes.

Tetraploid are plants that have 4 sets of chromosomes and are known as super plants and may be extremely potent with very high THC… above 35%. They have been created in the past using colchicine, but there are natural tetraploid plants that may be found too.

Tripoid plants have 3 sets of chromosomes. These plants are sterile.

Diploid (normal cannabis plants) have 2 sets of chromosomes.

I needed to edit a couple of things… wake n bake this morning was much more effective than usual.

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#14

I’m wondering how an anti inflammatory for gout can make a plant produce an extra pair of chromosomes

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#15

I could be off here but I believe the plants made using colchicine are or can be poisonous to smoke anyway??

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#16

It’s true that colchicine is a medication known for treating rheumatism and swelling. (I have gout myself and it sucks pretty bad when it flares up), but it doesn’t work better that NSAID’s or steroids.

FYI… Colchicine is derived from the Autumn Crocus plant and is highly toxic. DO NOT let colchicine absorb into your skin… it’s very bad juju and can cause chromosomal defects.

Colchicine prevents microtubule formation during cell division and chromosomes don’t pull apart like they normally would. The result is a cell that has double the number of chromosomes than it normally would. If, in the future, the cell divides again then the double number of chromosomes are passed down to the offspring cells.

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#17

Thanks all. Answered my question.

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#18

Buddah Seeds was working on triploids a while back:


https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=296131

Not sure what happened with this. As (mostly) sterile female plants would be invaluable for cannabinoid hemp farmers right now; you could plant and grow a sensimilla crop in the middle of a fiber/seed hemp field with pollen everywhere. Of course it is a lot harder to breed a tetraploid parent line than a diploid.

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