Unfinished concrete? Happy's new Bloom Room

Growroom Design
#1

Good day folks,

A major rebuild of the bloom room is coming up. After the large tent crops out I will have about 2 weeks to load the next round in. I will be updating my flowering space from some tents to a sealed room, doubling the tray area, and doubling the lighting. The plan is to frame in traditionally, insulate as appropriate, and use panda film right over the studs with sealed seams and staples.

Footprint will be around 8x12, with one 4x8 flood table used as a drip tray for potted plants in coco
Lighting over the table will be 2x 1kW HPS in air cooled hoods, isolated air, on a t-stat for heat scavenging in the winter.
AC will be a 10K BTU window unit through the basement window. PCB removed; driven by a separate day/night controller.
Heater will be an oil-filled something rather, for night time only.
CO2 control will be timer + IGS-061; timer to restrict the output to 10 hrs in the middle of the light cycle
Watering will likely be autopots if I can afford them by the time rebuild is done. Otherwise a pump on a timer and a bilge pump to deal with DTW runoff
Dehuey will be a little 650W unit, PCB removed, time-delayed, on a separate day/night hygrostat.

I have a corner of my basement that I can use, but not sure of:

a) Proper methods of insulating against bare concrete and associated moisture control. I imagine it is not a good idea to shove fiberglass batting right against the concrete (concrete is full height of the walls in the basement)? But a second barrier may trap moisture? Is someone here able to school me on how to properly do this? @argo945, you are always posting amazing reno work, do you know how I can make sure plants stay happy and mold stays in my bread basket?

b) the need to treat floors? Should i be insulating, or is just lifting my tray off the ground sufficient? The basement is full height underground in the 50s house, so the floors stay a consistent “feet get cold without shoes in seconds” temperature all year long.

c) Above the ceiling is my bedroom/office. I was just going to throw some reflectix on the ceiling, tape the seams, and not bother with more insulation since the other side of that surface is climate controlled. That good?

d) Those stick-on tarp zippers. Do they seal OK? Or should I really be getting a door? Just concerned about not leaking too much co2 out. Velcro? Thoughts and Prayers?

Appreciate any feedback on this endeavor; i will post pictures of the construction
Thanks guys and gals,

HH

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#2

Heh, well. I do a load of work here in the UK and it kind of translates over so I’ll give you my opinion and @argo945 can give you his aaand I’m sure there’s a few others tradesmen knocking around.

So to address A): you would need to dig a channel out all the way around your basements concrete floor, of I believe around 4 inches wide and about the same deep. You would then need to install what we call “platon damp proofing” which is a plastic you cover your walls in. Next step after that is a water pump to empty water buildup in that builds up in the channel. THEN stud over the platon. It’s long winded lol

B) probably would need some floor heating just for the sake of your pots if they’re going to be on the floor that or possibly raise them up with a pallet or something like that so they aren’t directly freezing :rofl:

C) I would agree get some shower room boarding(we call it aqua board) it’s waterproof but then you’d need to think of moisture build up down there so possibly put a little 4” extractor fan up on the ceiling to remove that moisture build up on the ceiling to avoid the damp.

D) Those Velcro stick on strips are quite good but they can come away from the plastic so if I was you I would install a doorframe and put a door in there. I remember when I did my DIY tent and it was a constant pain in the arse so maybe some draught strips for the door to help stop 02 escaping. :+1:

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#3

Found a vid

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#4

Thanks @Explorer!

My basement is actually quite dry, and i definitely don’t have the ability/means to do a proper dig-out and channel installation. BUT i might be able to offset the framed-in walls and actively ventilate the space behind - would that work for just the insulation mold-proofing?

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#5

Well it is for now but I wouldn’t count on that when you put a warm environment into a cold environment that condensation will build up.

Being honest though going by your OP you’re going to be building a room in a room basically so if you build walls up and insulate and allow a little room from the existing concrete I don’t think it would be unbearable down there as you’re essentially running an entirely different room within that room if that make sense to you lol :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

In your situation depending on what your budget is like I would build up a 3x2 frame to the area you want to grow in. Insulate the floor with some kingspan(don’t know if it’s same name there) and do the same with the walls, ceiling be fine as you’ve got a floor above anyway then expending foam the gaps between the timber and the insulation boards. Then your room temps will be steady because it’s sealed while not affecting the outside of your room :+1:

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#6

First I would say 2x1000w is overkill for a 4x8 flood table. I would use 2x600w. A 600 watt light will produce more light per watt they are the most efficient. 2x600 will give you 50% more light for only 200 more watts than a 1000w light. A bigger footprint, and less cooling needed in the summer.

A, spray foam is the best for basement Insulation,

B, Put your pots on polystyrene Insulation not directly on the concrete.

C, sounds good.

D, As Explorer says a door is best. It gets the most use, in a grow room, just put foam weather strip around the frame to seal it.

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#7

Thanks @Shadey, I had not thought of spray foam. I’ll have to think this over because it cannot be reasonably easily taken down; I’ll talk to my wife and see if that is a factor; even though we own the house I’m not sure how long we are going to be staying here. Land assemblies are selling left right and centre in our neck of the woods.

Do you really think two 1k lamps is too much for a 4x8? Even if I let the canopies spill over the footprint of the tray a bit? I have a 1k in a 52x52 tent now, and it seems to be just right… and I will be adding co2 in the new space, so potentially the plants can use even more light. My basement is at around 650ppm now. I do own 2x600w ballasts already though, so no harm in trying it out and comparing. Maybe I will even run 1 side at 1k and 1 at 600 and see what the difference really is by weight and whether it justifies the extra expense. 10k btu should easily cool the space in vented hoods even with a dehuey regardless of whether I use 1ks or 600s.

And I will look for a door on craigslist…

Cheers,

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#8

I used rigid foam on my basement walls. It kinda pricey but cheaper than spray foam. It’s a vapor barrier as well. Easy to cut and glue to the walls

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#9

Just build yourself a frame from 2x4’s and attach 1" foam boards around it… Easy to take down if needed and still a good enough insulator to hold heat and keep out chill

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#10

I highly recommend you follow what this guy does in the video and lay a subfloor for the entire basement.

Then frame your room on top of the subfloor.

Edit: frame, insulate and vapor barrier the outer walls prior to laying the subfloor

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#11

Yes, I’d avoid that.

Yes, I’d avoid a double vapor barrier. You want the dewpoint (along the thermal gradient between the exterior and interior temperature) to exist within a solid non-food source insulating material such as foam board. This will help prevent condensation on the exterior face of the material. The better the R-value board the easier it is to achieve. You don’t want to trap moisture in an open space between two vapor barriers.

What I’ve tried: sprayed foam into the rim joist area that exist along the exterior framing. Foam board on the concrete walls. Foam board on the floor and then a layer of plywood on top of that and then tapcon screws.

[1]

See the following site, BA-0309: Renovating Your Basement. They have a bunch of articles around insulation techniques.

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#12

My flower room is 8x8ft I use roughly 8 X5 ft for my plants and 2x600w lights have more than enough footprint and cover 9 plants. I have a 1000w as well that I ran covering 6 plants. The 50% extra light and the bigger footprint, got double my yeid average from 3 extra plants.

If you want more light go for 3 x 600w which will give you more light than 2x1000w and save money on power.

If you’re running costs are not really a concern, and the extra heat and light are ok with CO2 then I would stay with your 1000w. 600w is more versatile and cost effective for a non CO2 grow.

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#13

the thing often overlooked in insulation is contact; if you can have an air gab between your floors & walls that’s a huge difference; electric heat for the floor maybe? the lights heat the air…hmmm. :thinking:

:evergreen_tree:

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#14

Unless you plan on using the entire basement I don’t see why you’d need insulation right on the walls. If you’re running lots of air through the room (which you should be) your room is only ever going to be a bit warmer than the air you’re taking in…

I have the grossest basement ever and I figured it’s all about isolation. I built frames up off the floor on concrete deck blocks, then built the rooms on those frames. Take clean air in from somewhere and let the basement do whatever it wants outside the room.

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#15

Totally cheaper than spray foam, i just priced both. This is looking more and more like the way to go for me; thank you!

A sheet sandwich! also a great idea. I was hoping to not buy plywood and just rely on the panda film, but as my wife said “you are carefull, but i’m not – what if I cool-aid-man into that wall?”. This will help.

Fair point. I will try that first. Mainly because I no longer have a second 1K ballast (one died, used backup), and instead of buying another one, i’d rather set that money aside for future LED.

hmm. There is a place that gives these away all day long not too far from me:
https://vancouver.craigslist.org/rds/zip/d/delta-free-wood-dry/6872255548.html
tapcon these to the walls, then put the isocyanurate or polystyrene on top, then film on the inside?

This is looking like a hack-job right up my alley :wink:

Thanks folks! gonna start planning and drawing.

@beacher; I will be running the room sealed and full of CO2. In the winter my basement gets down to 11-12C tops, and in the summer, outdoor air is up to 30C; so I do need to insulate to keep the environment stable-ish…

On a side note, to save on madness, i am considering a Titan Spartan Basic controller – does anyone have any experience with them? Or titan equipment in general?

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#16

Couple of obvious issues I see right off are using CO2 and your cooling. CO2 only works if you are in a “sealed” room meaning no air in and no air out. Cooling must be provided by a Mini split or the like. (Air need to be recycled in room only)

Window units cycle indoor and outdoor air typically. They also allow smell to escape. That may be of no concern however it still will not provide the sealed system.

Problem two, the BTU’s are way too small for HPS lighting. At least the amount you want to use.

With fluctuating temperatures you absolutely want to insulate the room. Walls and ceiling are a must if you want to maintain any type of consistency.

Use OSB instead of plywood. It is half the cost and easy to work with. I prefer to paint all of the rooms I design/build but Panda can be hung on OSB easily as well.

Quick pic of a very high tech setup I finished a couple of weeks ago where we used the new Titan controller. The early report is very nice piece. Just no longevity yet to comment on.

1D0ADB8D-BD09-4CB3-AF2C-7640F723E7A9.jpeg3024Ă—4032 2.16 MB

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#17

Thanks @LED_Seedz!
Yes I do want to run sealed, and my 10K BTU is a sealed unit. I took it apart, and it is gasketed, taped, and completely lightproof between the evaporator and condenser compartments. Smell is not an issue as I am fully legal and registered with the government anyways… and so are most neighbours actually…

Got it on the walls and ceiling, will be doing both

As far as I understand it, each HPS bulb, with ballasts outside of the room, is about 4K BTU open. In vented hoods that gets reduced by about 40%. My dehuey is about 2200 BTU. So that leaves 8000*0.6 + 2200 = 7000 BTU.
Are my assumptions on cooling 1K HPS wrong?

Great to heat about the titan doing well! I will buy one then.

Thanks again,
HH

3 Likes
#18

Don’t count on that 40% for a vented hood… from my experience it’s usually more around 30%…
Also make sure your hoods are totally sealed. There are usually little spots at the corners or welds that are not sealed and will suck the co2 out of the room…
General rule on ac is to give 40 btu for every square foot of floor space. Then start adding the btu for every watt used, 4 btu per watt is a good estimate… yes even the fans produce a little heat…
Divide the final number by 12,000 to get tonnage. And I’ll usually round up to the nearest ton or 1/2 ton.

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#19

Awesome, thank you @Dewb

According to your calculations (puts me just under 12K) I am a little under-sized for the AC, but taking the average of both puts me dead-on. I have a 14K unit as well, but the 10K is in better shape and easier to deal with. I will keep this in mind and pay close attention to how hard it works. If the duty cycle exceeds 70% with lights on, i’ll swap in the 14K from my living room…

I will pressurize the hoods and soap the seams, this is a great idea

Cheers,
HH

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#20

Is that the titan complete digital environmental controller? I was gifted one and the sensor has a flashing green light that flashes even in the night cycle. I used black gorilla tape to try to block out the light but the green light still leaks light through the sensors vents. If you can turn it off somehow let me know. I wouldnt use the sensor that it comes with. I havent looked around to see if titan sells one without the flashing lights. Just a FYI for anybody looking to get one.

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