very very interesting!
DIY is the way to go and we could start building our own pannels or crowdsource a company to do them if they indeed work well. I have a friend who understands a lot about LEDS since he works with them I will try to get some info on it. I will also look closely at your thread to see where it goes. I keep hearing about the samsung LEL’s everywhere.
I run as efficient of a garden as I can and have used hps mh in the past and after swapping out the fat bulb for pcb boards I can say without a doubt I’ll never use the hid ever again in any capacity.
The better led still gives off heat it’s not completely cool, but compared to those 20thousand kelvin bulbs it’s night n day.
I replaced a 400w mh in my experiment cab with a 240w meanwell that I keep dimmed to approx 170w
I was able to remove the jet engine exhaust fan and now use a 4” cpu fan and my temp is never above 82
this is exactly what I was looking into right now. Once I figure out which LED unit stands on it’s feet I will test it against HPS. LED business is going forward pretty fast.
If we can find what works best here and bring the price down by DIY we will strike gold.
Going to look for side by sides with these DIY samsung chips.
I’m also seeing some interesting threads on CMH, anyone got input on that vs LED?
For me the reverse is true. I use narrow beam angle LEDs - they have 90 degree beam angle, it penetrates better than my 600w Gavita HPS. beam angle can vary from 60 or 70 degrees all the way up to 150, it makes a huge difference in the way the light works.
If you match the right amount of intensity (PAR or PPF) to your canopy area you will get excellent penetration. There really is no downside except price. Quality LED’s will cost more upfront than HID.
I have no experience with this company but have read good reports on their lights complete built or kit form
These guys have some interesting lights but pricey
That fluence looks good. Might pull trigger after 1st of year if can expand some. I did research Fluence some years back but seems like they only had larger expensive greenhouse lights then…can’t remember!
I grow with a USA made blurple and a Cob in small space and spend around $25 a month for more pot than I can smoke (and that includes fans and veg closet).
I get past the penetration thing by side lighting and topping for 4 main colas to keep em short in 5 gal buckets.
My main lights:
https://advancedledlights.com/products/led-grow-lights/ds-xte-200/
My grow: Bez's 2X2 Blurple, COB, and Fluorescent Closet Grow - #16 by bezalom
If not Fluence next time maybe some DIY quantum board. As mentioned above already that the pace at which this technology is progressing now then who knows what the next advancement will bring.
I like the 300-400 watts I use (low electric bill). Biggest problem I have found from HPS to LED (at least for me) is lack of transpiration due to lack of heat. I actually added shop lights etc. to bring my temps up.
I’ve checked out those Timber Lights and very much like Rapid Led (almost bought the Timber but Rapid had a tax free/ and free shipping on Amazon.
Those Platinum are made in China and can read many horror stories if sorted by default in Amazon reviews of them. Also, China known to spam positive reviews on Amazon (can even tell many by same weird broken English).
9.9 times out of 10 the expensive lights you buy in north america are manufactured in china. the ones manufactured in america are even more expensive…
eg $65 for quantum board 304 made in china (on sale from 75) vs. $99 for qb288 made in america (on sale from $150!) vs $20 for near identical quantum board 304 direct from china (including heatsink!)
ChilLED gets their PCBs made in china and places the diode chips in america. fluence says “built in america” but does that mean they’re just putting the casing on a chinese PCB? not sure
i think the samsung LM301B is from mid 2017 … at least the earliest design files etc on the website are … but youre right those aren’t widely adopted yet
The fact Samsung put out a new one, is to me only a stronger indication that china have copied the 2015 technoligy. 
Im sure the brand Chips in the end give more light, on the other hand it seems that the cheap LED’s work all right for the money.
I’m 99% sure that they are not doing the surface mounting themselves either. Samsung chips made in Korea if memory serves. Then those go to China and soldered into PCBs. Assembled in America? Sure, designed in America, yep. But almost ALL electronics come from over seas.
I don’t want to spam your thread with pictures though I am almost finished with my light comparative thread over on Grasscity (Cackleberry grow) comparing 315w cmh, 400w hid and diy 180w quantumboard120’s only going by recommended watts per square foot as I can’t wrap my mind around par, umol etc. though I do my best to try to understand. Anyhow, so far…
CMH - Won for veg and bud building
QB - Won for flowering transition stretch
HID - struggling all the way around
I did have a couple auto’s that reacted a bit different…
Blue dreamatic did best with the CMH
Brooklyn Sunrise did best with the QB’s…was not run with the hid as the seed didn’t make it
I think everyone that can do their own comparisons absolutely should to find out what is going to work best in their environments and grow style as they are all unique being adapted to what suits individual lifestyle’s 
thanks for input. Wouldn’t you think DIY kits are better than the more expensive units?
I laugh at the people who still think China equals garbage when 90% of the stuff is made there. The amount of times I found suppliers of the big brands is just stupid.
For sure they are not all the same and some are garbage or suffer QC issues. If you don’t have previous experience with a factory it’s a kind of hit or miss game.
Is there anything cooking better than the LM301B that you are aware?
ahah I gave a similar answer. Some of them try to hide so you don’t go on ali and get same tech for half the price.
Now, you had 180w led against 315wcmh.
What would you think it would happen if you had 315 watts of led instead of only 180w?
they didn’t ‘copy’ the technology … they use samsung brand diodes… most of the LED fixtures are manufactured in china, chinese PCB manufacturers just fuck over their clients by selling their products and designs behind their back… or else they slightly modify the design so its not breaking their contracts… samsung is constantly developing new technology,… the LM301B isn’t even the newest diode, i think it’s just the highest efficiency per dollar atm… you can get all the diodes from chinese distributors
HLG has an agreement with samsung now … they’ll be sourcing their diodes directly from samsung now instead of a chinese distributor, and their new fixtures will be branded samsung i believe
Im fairly sure the chips I got, is not Samsung chips but chinese copies.
The chips I am using is “noname” and the price alone, should make that obvious.
I just ordered 10 strips with 72 chips on each.
I pay 1.2 for a single 72 chip strip, thats 0.01 per chip.
This is incl the alu strip and shipping, of a “ready to use” product.
Even as unmounted chips, Im gonna pay a minimum of 0.1$ for a Samsung chip, about 10x what I pay for the strip.
Besids next to each other, there is a fairly big difference in the chips, where the samsung chip have a signature shape.
My chips don’t have thouse corner markings, they are just square and if your chip don’t look like that.
It’s a copy, and not a original Samsung chip.
Just before my light comparison, I ran 4 qb120’s at max for 70w each = 280w in one of the 3x3x8 cabinet’s with Laughing Buddha in a 30gallon pot…shared with a 3Bears auto. LB got away from me and chopped her in half twice…1 time at 6wks of veg and 1 time a week after light flip - she still skyrocketed to 7.5’ and needed additional light to penetrate her canopy better so tried adding 2 more qb120’s on the sides and ended up taking them out after a week and thinned her out…harvested 136.9grams = 1.71gpw dry at almost 13wks of flower.
I figure if I were to continue with the qb’s in that cabinet, I would definitely throw in 6 from the get go though turn them down to 60w each as they seem to be brighter. Now the comparison is almost over, I think the CMH is doing a much better job in the “bigger” 3x3x8 cabinets and will leave 3 qb’s running at 60w each in the “smaller” 2x3x4 cabinets and throw in a reptile light to compensate for the missing uva/b
There is a fairly long thread on here about gm/watt, verses gm/sq meter, verses other ways to measure efficiency.
We pretty much decided that there is no single “perfect” way to measure efficiency.
The problem with gm/watt, and gm/sq meter is that neither one takes time into consideration.
For example, say you have two growers that are using the same exact lights, and the same exact tent, and the same exact plants, all from the same mother, and both grow the same way with the same nutes, same temps, etc etc etc.
BUT… one of them veges his plants for 2 months and the other one veges for 3 months.
If they both get the same number of grams at harvest, they would both have the same gm/watt and the same gm/sq meter, but the one with the shorter grow time would have saved money with the shorter time.
Or one guy grows 3 plant in a 100 sq ft room with three lights, and the other one grows the same plants in a 7 sq ft tent with one light. The guy with the bigger room may get more yield because he has space to spread out the plants in a bigger SCROG which gave him more yield per plant.
Which is more “efficient”, and what is the best way to judge that?
We did agree that no single point of comparison was really much use when comparing two different grows. Just doing a single point of comparison will always result in inaccurate comparisons. In the end, we couldnt agree on what would be a perfect method - none of them really work for all situations. We did agree that time and size of the grow were important though. We also talked about total cost, but then do you include initial investment, or just daily costs, or costs over the main grow or total costs, or?
On the other hand, if you are just interested in how well your personal grow is doing, and you are always using the same basic setup as far as lights, space etc, then you can pick any single point you want to see if your grows are doing better or worse from one grow to the next.
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The problem with doing that is you will never buy an LED light, or a new TV or a new phone, or etc etc. Tech is always going to be changing, and improving and getting cheaper and better. Moore’s Law is a real thing.
I think another advantage to LED’s is that you have the option of keeping the drivers in the tent if you need more heat, or you can locate them outside the tent if you have too much heat.
I also found some “rolls” that say to have these samsung chips but they seem way to cheap. I know because they buy them in bulk they get excellent prices but I believe there are some fakes around also.
