I completely agree with this and I am amazed at how some here seem to indicate otherwise. I ran Chocolate Rain, Silverfields, Mr. Nice Mango and SSH in a subtropical climate (PR) back in 2008 and I am running them now in the mediterranean and it simply is not the same. I also ran A LOT of bagseed from South America and had 20 plus week flowering sativas. California has a similar climate to the Mediterranean. The lack of proper soil is there- the ones these plants tend to like, the lack of the humidity they lack is there, and the temperatures simply swing way too much in the extremes. People seem to forget that despite this imaginarium of the subtropics and the tropics being hot, they really are not. Back home, night temperatures rarely dropped below 16 during the winter and rarely went higher than 27 during the summer. This is the temperature these sativas like. They DO NOT like low humidity, they DO NOT like swinging temps below 16 degrees and up to 35 degrees like outside the subtropics or the tropics, this is specially so in the mountains, where we are mostly protected by the coastal temperatures that indeed are more similar to California or the Mediterranean.
i have gone through phases where arjan was a god then he was a scam artist then he was a good guy in my head. but when i saw what the people in africa were doing with the genetics they brought there and taught them to farm i thought “this is bigger than anything in my head”. and it really is, they “stole” seeds that were sold to them by local farmers, gave those same farmers the real exodus cheese and now they grow high quality cheese down there and get big bucks for it (relatively speaking) which feeds their entire community. perspective is crucial.
Seems to me like you just want to argue.
I don’t see where he said EVERY sativa he’s grown smells of frankincense when burned.
bro didnt hempy get his stock from 2 sources at the same time why wouldnt they have similar genetic expressions lol
It would have been better if the farmers from Africa (or wherever), would have come to Europe and taught the Europeans something about Cannabis instead the other way round.
That’s a big part of the problem our world has today, people who have no knowledge and expertise and are only after money and “market share” and are arrogant, egomaniacal, narcissistic, greedy, competitive and have a unfounded and unjustified feeling of superiority try to tell people what to do to help their own agenda and money grabbing schemes instead of just being humble and listen to people that have more experience and knowledge than they have and leave their “help” at home.
And it would be even better if they took advise and help from people that had hundreds and thousands of years of experience and not only a few years (and most of it lies they read somewhere or made up themselves).
And why it is good if someone brings genetics to Africa that are prone to mold and other defects and are not adapted to the climate there and therefore one has to use pesticides etc. I also do not quite understand.
But the current thing is always better than things tried and tested over centuries I guess, especially if it brings a small group of people a lot of money.
i think in many examples the flow of information goes both ways. the local farmers are compensated fairly for their gear, i get in the abstract how it seems explotive and in lots of cases throughout history it has been but were not talking about big multinationals that are handcuffed by profit margins here, people are going to these places with good intentions often.
and the cheese has adapted to south africa well, its pretty amazing, the plants dont really grow root systems and just suck up the dew from the air in the morning, no mold or bug issues. real exodus breeding with real durban etc in the wild, maybe they are polluting the genetic lines there, is that always bad?
Tbh i have to go with @shade on this one, even though I totally love the southern africa sativas. The local population of these parts of Africa does prosper from cultivars that they can sell for a higher value. Even though they have Heirloom cultivars which we agree is important to save. It’s very selfish of westners to exclude these people from western genetics, just because WE want them to save heirlooms, why not let each farmer take care of their own interests, their own families and have the same liberty as anyone else in this world?
It’s up to fanatics like us to save heirlooms and not up to the poor farmer, just wanting to put food on the table for their families.
Pz 
i have yet to see an example where the “best herb” was not what simply what was going for the highest prices in a certain area. we can debate the details all day for fun but at the end of the day it is a cash crop and those poor people understand that on a primal level. this is also why i feel confident saying toms pheno might be the best weed in the world, though id probably not enjoy smoking it personally lol, because for decades it has consistently been the most expensive. yield is obviously a factor but when you strip everything you can to get as objective as possible its always price paid at the end of the day.
Can you tell me where I can get some seeds of this allegedly stable Haze? I counted at least four very distinct genotypes when I last grew some.
How do we know that they have been compensated fairly? Do we take into account the profit made by the western buyer of seeds after in our economies? Do we take into account as a factor of fairness if the person has enough education to understand the amount of profits that can be made from selling their seed stock to a person that will profit from it in the west? is it fairer if the person person from the Global South has the same level of education, knowledge, or applied information?
I think we have enough experience here to know that it is not a fact, an absolute truth, or that there is even a consensus on whether Cheese is better than say Durban Landrace sativas.
@Stockton Yobro! Yeah, rains a’ commin’! And who TF knows how much of it this year? 
The first thing that occurs to me with that place description is a memory from a time you ‘might’ have been here…but it was loooooong ago! Do you remember “Bongo Bar”? A bunch of Thai rasta’s, mostly musicians and growers used to meet up every Sunday out in a little sala on the rocky point just at the far base of the looong hill after leaving Nathon heading into Bang Por? Fun times and memories (though most of them are pretty cloudy!). There was another place, on the other side (Nathon) of the hill a few years later that was an ‘underground hangout’ quite similar, can’t remember the name?
On other fronts, as much as I’ve had fun here and learned a bunch from very knowledgeable people, I’m afraid that this thread has devolved into such an argumentative state that, while it’s not all that much, I’m taking my Haze-Ball and going home! Just bored with the bickering, not what (I feel) OG is all about… 
If anybody wants to just look at a couple pictures of some Original Haze grown in the tropics, drop in…but please don’t pack any arguments for the trip! Try to treat each other like you treat your plants! Really mean it - Good luck sorting it all out!
is there a local market for those seeds? doubt it, they have no value outside of the western buyer. assuming they are stupid also not something im going to do. in the case of green house they were well compensated, its documented on film. and many more online documenting their landrace gathering journeys showing compassion to the locals along the way.
and my point again on consensus about what is best is always going to be what is the most expensive product at market, and you think that exodus is going for less than the local flavor there? no way.
I shared my gear with @GreenAndFast as he grows things like mango thai, zamal/congo or old timer haze, so I was sure he knows real cerebral quality of tropical cultivars, recently he wrote me:
“I smoked some tropical boogie this weekend and I must say it’s excellent. Incredible head. Clear as day but a mushroom type of vibe at first as you are adjusting. Really long legs easily 4 hours. Was at the beach staring at the sunset for what felt like hours haha”
so great results with my gear he reported 
that is just little sample, I will not hijack this thread with reports on grandfunk or acid beauty. you can read it in my thread…
love to see real haze! great effort!
yeah man, if their stuff is so good, like this nevilles haze is supposed to be “the best” LOL why do they need to attack and discredit people with different opinion? probably it is not that good hahahaha
Tom Hill said that haze used in dutch hybrids is boring lumbo… and they can shit their pants from it hahahaha it would be easy to ingore it imo. but no, they cant hahahaha
I, for example, ignore information that mr. nice seeds nevilles haze is F1 hahahaha. any backcross cant be F1 LOL thats first, anybody says that doesnt understand breeding, and it is like F4 or so… but I ignore it hahahahahha
You got your response what is wrong with some of you people.
His made the ignore list now.
he doesnt want to sell it, as it would be revealed what is all about hahaha
but you can buy mr. nice seeds, it is the same. and I think ojd is selling some outback haze, which contain that supposed to be “marvelous” thai from hempy, and dont forget bushweed seeds.
I have no problem to share my gear with others, as I am pretty confident about its quality. all is very well tested by me and numerous other growers.
thank you bro. yes, it is true I presented my opinions on dutch haze long before I started to sell seeds. thanks.
thanks for chiming in, much appreciated bro. keep it up!
I don’t feel like you “hijack”. This is all people’s opinions and a lot of people think they know more than the next person. Please continue posting reports here. Love the pics and feedback as long as it’s unbiased.
We all are here for the same thing, great weed. I for one enjoy the banter and might even learn something once I separate the wheat from the chaff.
I take what any breeder says with a grain of salt. The real proof is in trusted members showing what they got out of a pack of seeds.
I can’t imagine what it’s like to start out as a “new” breeder selling seeds. All the competition and shade from so many people must be very frustrating. But once you build a name for yourself, they sell themselves.