Alpine Haze 1.0

[StoneGuru]

Thank you both! Sometimes I’m too wordy and a mix of facts and speculation, but still the best compliment I could get. One of my frustrations was that so few breeders documented the work or process that went into the makes. I’m a nerd about it and generally couldn’t find any useful information most of the time. Just bold colorful claims. TI am trying for the inverse of that.

Years of documentation with almost nothing released. I know what will happen when it is so am trying to equip others with the backdrop the create and select according to their goals.

Last year was a collection of haze variations on different ends of the spectrum. I am working toward offering a 2024 haze breeders collection this Spring. The idea is to share them, but it takes a lot of time to go through the whole process. Some will be tested, some not, some line work, other elites… collectively it will open up a lot of options.

[StoneGuru]

Are you looking past the stalked trichomes? I hope to get a better lense, but that is where a lot of the haze magic is taking place . What Tomhill refers to as field density. We love giving each other shit, but he really does know his stuff and was one of the first people I heard to really dig into some key traits of haze accurately

[StoneGuru]

I cropped it to show the smaller stalkless (reflections) . So far I have not experimented with harvest windows for different effects or with consideration to this. Generally the early end of the window is 13w, but I think the plants could be kept healthy to 16w or more.

[StoneGuru]

The Silk S x Soulmate has many early meristem mutations where. On the surface they seem to subside. 5 branch nodes have stabilized down to 3. A fasciated flower continues and a few other mutations.

It seems more common to see mutations become less apparent through the life cycle where lines like Alpine becomes more apparent.

The Soulmate was a line I had already been selecting and had on hand. It’s use was based on a theory that Chem’s origin is Nevil’s 5haze on the male side. So far there are some sparks going off, but Soulmate has to many variable outcrossings for anything conclusive.

Multipack hunts are currently being opened up to really dive into these potentials. I align with Bodhi’s selection process or hierarchy of selection overall so going with his Chem’s for the hunt.

Wookie bx (chem D line work). 4play (chem D linework outcross to Korean dom back to chem 4). And Chem D× Wookie (chem D linework)

I consider it a benefit to the project that Korean (via Lavender) in wookie is included. Korean is a basal original line. @dx4 has done a great deal of research into Korean origin theory coordinating both anthropological and Metabolic studies. @dx4. If you have the time to include any information on this it would be very helpful

All males are being reversed to identify trichomes, pistils, calyx and profiles imparted.

It is a relatively stressful process, but it is the only way to accurately breed regular seed for terpenes and cannabinoids…aside from running all tester progeny combinations which I rarely ever have seen documented and doubt is done in many projects.

I have been doing this practice for about 3 years now and it has definitely effected the males I ultimately select.

[Magu]

Please describe the process for reversing males. I am sure the entire OG community would find that very interesting.

[JustANobody]

Reversing male plants to judge female/smoking qualities

original discussion thread from icmag by skunkman sam has anyone ever reversed a male plant and forced it to produce female flowers to gauge what types of qualities it could potentially pass to female offspring or smoked the resulting flowers? ethephon is the chemical i think, the products are ethrel or florel Fertile female flowers can be induced in male plants by ethephon (2-chloroethanephosphonic acid) and NIA 10637 (ethylhydrogen-l-propylphosphonate). Interestingly, stamens could be seen…

Here you go, it’s been discussed before.

[StoneGuru]

There are numerous benefits to this practice. Every set of genetics is going to have its own morphological markers associated with terpenes and cannabinoids.

I think this ends up being a tension point for people because we all have different experiences and everyone’s experiences are based off their own genetics.

The book can be and should be over-written for every project based on disciplined observations and process.

The main benefits that can’t otherwise be observed are terpenes/profile, trichome field density and Pistils. With the hazes I work with pistils definitely do have associated profiles so it helps. The male flowers that do come up are generally sterilized so relatively safe to do near sinse.

I have also noticed that different plants of each line have an easier or more difficult time transitioning. This may be indicative of how much male or female hormone is being produced. This observation may be very useful in culling out intersex traits in line work of an otherwise desirable cultivar.

It seems like an extra step to reverse males, but is ultimately a time saver if quality is the key. Stem rubs are very inaccurate relative to this

One of the most useless markers for tracking traits might be NLD vs BLD. As an example. Here are atypical narrow leaves of Alpine 1.0

We know that Soulmate (Chem D, Korean Skunk, green crack, grass valley og). Have a fair amount of Sativa present. Yet crossed with the extreme NLD haze above .

This is what happened…possibly more BLD than either side and looks hybrid. Leaf shape probably can’t be relied upon for identifying pedigree in my experience…however, I still note leaf morphologies, but of less significance in determination of ancestry.

[JustANobody]

Awesome post, thanks for sharing that information, it’s not talked about much.

[StoneGuru]

Likewise! I remembered reading the article, but couldn’t remember where. I have been using 5 ml florel to 250 ml water max every 5-7 days spraying nodes at flower initiation and once pistils form taper back to 3:250 or conclude mid late flower.

[dx4]

The stabilization in the mutants is textbook for meristem enlargement. As the plant grows the meristem will continue to get bigger and out of control until bifurcation happens which can be splitting into 2 separate meristems or the meristem starts to grow horizontally which looks to be happening with this latest example
. The direction of fascinated growth and manner of bifurcation is specific to the type of meristem mutant.

[StoneGuru]

Thank you so much to the friend that brought this together.

These are in many ways different extents of the old Nevil’s 5haze spectrum. I anticipate rare and unique transgressive haze types would come forward from a recombination like this. The metal leathers of Bandaid with the dank overwhelming Frankincense of Silk S is just one potential, but more likely there will be ancestoral types unlike either as well.

[Magu]

Hey @StoneGuru . I would like to ask a quick question if I may? Do you know anything about Sam Skunkmans haze? Thank you.

[StoneGuru]

I ran a fair amount of it ~100 in the late 90’s with a friend after loosing the original haze5 and the local 5haze from Nevils first release.

At the time it seemed hopelessly different, but maybe it was better than I thought at the time. I had the bar set so high initially that I may not have given the time and attention I would today.

I never revisited it so I can’t say. Been watching and listening for what people find in Tom Hills increase. I’m a believer that everything is in there with enough time work and a little luck, but probably won’t dive in unless I pick up some acreage near the equator.

[StoneGuru]

It wasn’t just Sam’s though. My experience is the same as others. Nevil’s had changed quite a bit too. We (mostly he) ran Nevil’s haze in either 98 or 99. Some of it was jarring and incredibly potent, but more meat, savory ammonia profiles…Others have spent more time researching the stories, but from my experience there was a very significant difference in profile and looks from TSB to after.

[Magu]

@StoneGuru . I dont remember if you told us already but what is your prefered light schedule? What are your temperatures?

[StoneGuru]

It stays about a constant 60% humidity and 70° with a dehumidifier running constantly. 10h light average.

It’s a build a soil type mix. The process is set up for hunting the most amount of material for the least amount of space and electric.

I don’t get the best version of anything with this process, but keep it healthy through the cycle to identify traits.

They are put under the canopy in the flowering room at around node 5 about a month before finish. As they stretch the rest are dropping leaves approaching the finish line. A backup cut is taken on the stretch and transplanted from 1 gallon into 3 as plants finish. This results in finishing about 25 haze plants per 5×5 every 8w… packs them in and the overlap saves another 30% on flowering time. A potential of ~300 per year per light.

Most plants are pruned to 2-3 main branches to make everything fit. Is the dehumidifier stops I am swimming like a trout upstream to the plants within minutes.. There is a lot of biomass in a small area.

The build a soil keeps everything healthy with such a range of requirements and types. I am looking for one more piece to the puzzle and then I’ll slow back down to growing for flower and a more comfortable pace… hopefully this year. It’s been about 5 years now quarter at this pace

[StoneGuru]

This was an Alpine 1.0 find from round one. It is similar, but so much more complex and developed than it was a year ago. It smells like everything I would want of an old school metal fruit and hardwood haze. It won’t be culled. She is just getting started around half way.

[webeblzr]

That bud looks amazing! About how long from cracked seed to that point?

[Dope_Heffalump]

Would the Buzzsaw portion of your Alpine Haze happen to be A5 Haze x Thai Bx?

[StoneGuru]

For this one It was taken about 14w on the seed run. I have been taking them when 80% cloudy/first sign of amber.

Many of the Alpine 1.0 have an extremely dense field of sessile or stalkless trichomes under the stalked. I do not know how long they could go or how the effects may change.

-At this stage it is very high vibration spiritual medicine. About 80% of the population is 13-14 w. 10% shorter and 10% longer with out any notable benefits yet.

The Alpine 1.0 change quite a bit over multiple cycles. This maturation is observable through mutations, profile, bouquet etc…this means what you like in the seed run will develop more until about cutting/ flowering 3 where it platues.

This may be observable shortly. This was the seed run