Reversing male plants to judge female/smoking qualities

[legalcanada]

original discussion thread from icmag by skunkman sam

has anyone ever reversed a male plant and forced it to produce female flowers to gauge what types of qualities it could potentially pass to female offspring or smoked the resulting flowers? ethephon is the chemical i think, the products are ethrel or florel

Fertile female flowers can be induced in male plants by ethephon (2-chloroethanephosphonic acid) and NIA 10637 (ethylhydrogen-l-propylphosphonate). Interestingly, stamens could be seen arising even from fruits. Stopping the application of growth regulators caused the plants to revert to their original sex. We hypothesized that in Cannabis, GA and ethylene act as male and female hormones respectively, and that the expression of sex is controlled by a balance between their endogenous levels. Abscisic acid (ABA) is able to overcome the GA induced male flower formation (Mohan Ram and Jaiswal 1973; Mohan Ram and Sett 1985).

Mohan Ram H Y and Sett R 1985 Cannabis sativa; in CRC
handbook of flowering (ed. Halevy A H) (Boca Raton: CRC
Press) Vol. II, pp 131–139

Mohan Ram H Y and Jaiswal V S 1973 The possible role of
ethylene and gibberellins in flower sex expression of Canna-
bis sativa; in Proceedings of 8th International Conference on
Plant Growth Substances (Tokyo: Hirokawa Publishing Co)
pp 987–996172

Although many environmental groups worry about toxicity resulting from use of growth hormones and fertilizers, the toxicity of ethephon is actually very low, and any ethephon used on the plant material is converted very quickly to ethylene.

[anon44218973]

Haha… A whole take on Uncle Ben’s smoking males to determine the potency of his progeny.

What the hell could smoking hermied males tell you about which of his genes will dominant or recessive in his progeny? Unless I’m missing something this has to be one of the stupidest things I’ve heard a supposed “expert” say.

[legalcanada]

i guess you won’t really know about dominance but to get an idea on smells, flower formation, etc… i think a couple people tried making YY seeds but i think i read you don’t get many and they are often sterile or something… i wonder if you could pollinate a reversed male with reversed female pollen

someone named Chimera said he reverses every male before he sells the pollen

[anon44218973]

Smells and flower formation are traits passed on from the parents. A hermied male is not going to tell you how those traits will or will not manifest themselves in his progeny. They can give you a clue about the possibilities. I probably could produce seeds and grow them out in about the same timeframe as it takes produce a hermied males , grow it out and smoking them.

Sam’s take was this is potential timesaver/ shortcut. IMO it’s not.

Also If it’s Chimera the breeder , he is very knowledgable dude who challenged Soul’s cubing theory.

[legalcanada]

kinda unrelated but i found this post today on mr nice forums saying sam didn’t create skunk, mendocino joe or someone did most of the work on the line, and skunkman sam ratted on everyone in sacred seeds when they all got busted so he was able to leave to holland with the line… and he was cooperating with DEA from holland or something… no idea

[StrainVenator]

Most are really chemically and you do not want to consume… I was just thinking of this similar as in back crosses if a Bx’s are ever made with a male and taken to Bx 4 or further to see most of the traits from the male ? there’s 2 males I’ve seen that come to mind that would be cool to see that , Dj shorts F4 blueberry breeding stud and Vader’s Jawa pie stud, Both of them are super dense pollen sack covered looking nice and trichcome covered, I’d love to see the female form of those pheno’;s or close to

[legalcanada]

the ethephon isn’t toxic at all apparently, lots of people have smoked the reversed males w/o issue, got high… idk it seems interesting i might use this tactic when i am looking for my males, flower 2 clones from each male and reverse 1 of them

[cannaloop]

This sounds really interesting. Any idea where you would buy it in Canada? I can only track it down as Ethrel on the Bayer site…
https://www.cropscience.bayer.ca/products/other/ethrel

[legalcanada]

amazon and ebay have florel but its kinda expensive… it looks like monterey brand florel is probably sold on shelves in the states, maybe somewhere in canada has it too

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Monterey-Florel-Brand-Growth-Regulator-16oz-16-Ounce/183218157836

Amazon.ca: floral

this website has a gallon for 100... and walmart.ca has a case of 12?? for 70 … maybe we could find some canadians to go in on 1 or 2 bottles each… 6 of us for $15 each or something

http://www.shutyourmouth.ca/germination-kits-bt-28_31/monterey-florel-growth-regulator-b012rzuk7s-ot-4676.html
https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/Monterey-MLGNLG4105-Plant-Growth-Regulator-Case-of-12/PRD1SUK3CUQT4YE

[anon44218973]

My experience with pollen chucking tells me that this is potentially a huge waste of time.

The first thing that comes to mind was a White Widow female that Sly sent me. She was BG’s female parent they used to create their White Widow seeds.

You could flower her out and smoke the hell out of her but it would not give you an indication of how her progeny would turn out. She was real nice but her offspring were outstanding. I can tell you that to look at her and smoke her you probably would not select her as a keeper/parent stock. Her full potential was only realized in her progeny. So for the life of me I can’t imagine gaining any useful info from smoking hermied males.

One of the best efforts I had was White Widow X Thai. I think I inadvertently created an IBL. About a dozen of use grew out those seeds all got the same exact results in spite of our different grow styles. They retained most of the Thai structure,Huge producers , shortened the Thai flowering times by about 2 weeks, the terps were very lemony and neither parent had any detectable lemony terps and the buzz was a powerful 50/50 mix of the the parents.

[legalcanada]

@ray

So for the life of me I can’t imagine gaining any useful info from smoking hermied males.

you’re correct, i think it’s more just to see how it grows as a female… honestly i probably wouldn’t even smoke it after spraying it but idk… obvs i wouldn’t devote 1000w to it or anything but if there’s some extra space it’d be a cool experiment… prob do it at least once just to say i have and see how it goes

[cannaloop]

So are you saying that it is better to evaluate characteristics of the progeny of parent plants instead of the parents themselves? I think I get what you mean, but couldn’t you get a basic idea? In other words, you wouldn’t necessarily think that you would end up with Arnold Schwarzenegger from his parents, right?

[anon44218973]

@cannaloop

I think I get what you mean, but couldn’t you get a basic idea?

Certainly you can get a basic idea, but it will not tell you how the dominant traits of either parent will be expressed in their offspring.

My example above concerning the White Widow x Thai seeds I made. The seeds produced very uniform offspring with very lemony terps. I used both the WW and Thai parents in other crosses I made, none produced any detectable lemony terps… and like I said neither parent had a lemony smell or taste.

[shroomgod]

Based on your hypothesis i’d make good judgement on your male revert to female plants.

[cannabissequoia]

@legalcanada

kinda unrelated but i found this post today on mr nice forums saying sam didn’t create skunk, mendocino joe or someone did most of the work on the line, and skunkman sam ratted on everyone in sacred seeds when they all got busted so he was able to leave to holland with the line… and he was cooperating with DEA from holland or something… no idea

thanks for this! @legalcanada

[anon85652984]

@legalcanada

Did you ever end up trying this out?

[Badfishy1]

Lol @ someone named Chimera.

[Badfishy1]

Sam being a shitbag… the Phylos shilling was the cherry on the cake… colour me shawk’d

[Fuel]

The only thing you can get this way is eventually how is the smoke of the reversed males in the offspring, and only if they are S1 off course. I feel pain to just have writed this sentence lol

[Kokua.Seed]

Aloha, the OP was posting up to get some info on reversing males. Seems like you’re posting up quite immature and without experience. But that is quite alright. Everybody is here to learn and share manào (experience). I was interested in the subject from a user’s post on IG @sungrowmids his article was 707Seedbank. I think perhaps you’ve never heard of him but thats ok. If you use IG you can search the aforementioned sungrownmids recent posts and appreciate the info as well! Yes, 707Seedbank used male reversals extensively. He smoked them. He bred with them. Perhaps you’ve never heard of the Strain called Zamboni. But thats ok. That’s what we are all here for. To learn from others experiences (manào) and share our own. If you read the article, though, you’ll learn that 707Seedbank used this tech extensively to select males for backcrossing, giving him deeper insights into the phenotypic expressions of his males to and the ability to better select his males for each successive back cross.
Now Speaking for myself, because I’m no expert, the phenotypic expressions of Terpenes and thiols are just a tad important to me. Perhaps you might not know what thiols are. But thats ok.
You’re posts sounds like you’d prefer to rub your male stem and smell your fingers after instead of putting your nose in the female flower. You see, umm umm …I’m sorry, do you have any identity to offer here? Or did your parents truly name you anon?
Anyway, son, “You ain’t seen nothing till you’re down on the muffin and you should be ashamed of your ways” -Steven Perry ~before you were born.
Don’t forget to reply and add to the thread your experience with reversing cannabis, and backcrossing and breeding. Thats what we are supposed to be here for: To share our experiences and learn from others’ experiences. In doing so we lift the community.
Aloha , Bu.