Agreed ! To make an s1 I believe you would choose a female that is difficult to reverse and never pick one that goes easy.
So if it were me. I would choose the female that took the longest to change and most treatment.
Its a wives tale that Breeding a male to her would cause hermaphrodites.
I think you are right to pick one that wonât turn intersex by stress. I also think when you treat with Colloidal silver or sts or whatever they all will, but it wonât be from stress so no problem.
So I have a feminized plant called AA. I have another feminized plant called BB. I donât know the method of how they achieved the feminized pollen.
Plant AA is short, slow growing, with smells of a bar of soap that fell in the dirt. Buds are small but hard. purple/green 70/30 and bright orange.
Plant BB is large and fast growing. smells are average. double the yeild of AA. All buds purple with dull orange.
what happens if I want to reverse a female from fem seeds to collect the pollen?
what would happen if I took AA reversed pollen and applied it to BB?
This is what I will be doing in the next month just to see what happens. I donât have much hope for a super stable strain, but as long as the bananas are in the last 7 days I can live if it is boobonic kronic
whats his book called
Hope you hear back from @lotus710.
Heâs been MIA for a while now.
I have honestly never tried but I believe:
Come to think of it I have reversed a feminised plant before using colloidal silver, it reversed as normal but did not produce much(if any) pollen⌠others that were sprayed did produce viable pollen. not sure if it was because the plant was feminised or what but I am willing to give it another try with STS.
Until just now I had presumed it was a plant that didnât want to play ball but is it because it was feminised⌠hmmm experiments to come.
Happy days
thats not good hope we do hear back from him anybody else know what book he is talking about
I believe itâs called as R1. Probably it means, Reversed 1 Hybrid.
-몽
Letâs speak true : STS appear magic and easy, but itâs not when you have the obligation to output a decent production of seeds in large numbers. And no, GA3 and CS are never used in large scales for a good reason.
You can extrapolate and to imagine whatever you want, itâs all about the initial female than you reverse when you enter in production. No, the process is not âautomaticâ and yes the output is absolutly relative to this female.
Go knock your teeths out on a true Cheese, then do the same with the most used line in industry to produce feminized line pollen : the black widow (for real, most of the time an old school GHS WW cut).
Replicating and to stabilize is twos different things, than have nothing in common both in the process and in the output.
If you want the exact same females, and only females, the most productive, cost effective and easy way is to clone a motherplant. No wheel to re-invent.
If you want to improve the rate of a recessive phenotype in a genotype in only one shot : STS and luck (the luck to have the right female cut for that without selecting it, for this exact project ⌠wich is the case most of the time).
If you have the time and the passion : backcrossing programs (âcubingâ donât have any sense on the long term needed for it, with cannabis).
Using the same male for everything will learn you a ton more than using random males each time, for sure. But itâs boring.
On the paper yes. But when the most serious breeders, forced by customers to throw fems on their catalog, told you to donât use these females for seeds ⌠itâs not for nothing. The worst fem seeds in the market are maded with double feminization, hacking of another fem catalog if you want.
Breeding is not maths, itâs a highly relative science. Relative to the specimen weâre talking about.
Yes, the females have the intersex switch. But no, they have not the same chromosomes and their interactions.
Decades ago, we were hunting the ones than was unable to express intersex.
Today we pick our stuff on the most resistant and evolved stock (potency, overall quality) the ones than express but in staying latent in direct offspring. Like crickets lol, we eat a stock than is no longer renewed with the same âeffortsâ than in past.
No issue to do that, no. But donât expect one minute to enter in any competition with this type of work.
Genetic depression is not only a âfemsâ problematic, but you appear to be sensible to that allready. The dog comparison is not pointless.
Backcrossing and inbreeding induce this problematic too, but you can prevent it in working with decent methods and constancy (wich is totally not compatible with the actual market, no one will give you years to outptut a single new line if not yourself).
In another hand, yes selfing is like applying years of genetic drift in one shot. And itâs why itâs so effective when itâs well maded btw, and why these seeds mustnât be considered as genetic material. More like a burger of a fast food restaurant. Itâs fun, good and fast but you known than the nutritive qualities is garbage and can kill you on long term.
Most of the lines we are counting on today (the real skeletons behind the hyped strains) was not created this way. To obtain so much evolution from a raw material to the quality grade of these classics involve to juggle with multiple P1 and lines from the same generation, each time. The way you describe involve more than one humanâs lifespan to obtain the same evolution.
Effective âEnd usersâ solutions can be found not so hardly. With a fifty bucks bottle, you can open a seedbank for twos years. Not worth the tries/fails costs needed to obtain a good solution balance imho.
I share that. Itâs for me the most shitty way to produce fems, i still donât understand. Maybe the easy âdiyâ process or the esoteric side of this product i donât known, but even in the costs side ⌠it donât have any sense for me.
Can be debated. But i see your point.
I rather prefer to talk about a quality of process and quality of selection involved than saying âno intersex in itâ. Call it latent, expressed, chemically induced or whatever ⌠but all our females have the intersex traits in theyr code. And itâs what it make them females and not males.
Somes continue to breed the old way, i mean in avoiding any form of intersex expression (and in using STS specially to unselect females) ⌠we are not all in the ruderalis and feminized madness.
Itâs not a guarantee of a good offspring. You will be surprised how good is one old school WW on this game, throwing fast loads of pollen like crazy with crazy stable fems offspring.
In doing what you describe, you stay in a middle of one thing. Choose an extrem, take risks and rush, life is short.
You always enter in real things mex, luv it each time ^^
My answer will not please you i guess but i hope it will light the real equation involved.
Synthesis :
Strain 1 : height A, speed A, terps A, yield A, flower density A, color AB
Strain 2 : height B, speed B, terps B, yield B, flower density ?, color BA
First, the genetic rules will be applyed then the context (selection, feminized seeds so âwashed-simpleâ blood).
So you will discover what the initial P1 will output together, in the spectrum of the selection weâre talking about (the fem specimen choosed), but in a caricatural way. So in equal part for âbad traitsâ and the âgood traitsâ, i mean with the same âstrenghtâ. The plants will always just choose the most effective way to blend together.
And obviously, the color will be your âmeterâ to judge the dominanceâs game involved and will be the center of the chromosomes fight (humanly readable), because they are the most compatibles. Cross your fingers than the colors are the markers for the potency or taste, but it can be linked with yield only or just the cloning performance ⌠only Jah known it for now.
To map that will be a crazy thing, itâs more strategic to use a cut than you known like your own children for both side before joining them. Just to known the âspiritâ of the genetic latency involved, before the assembly. And maybe to help you to choose better specimens for this exact blend.
best vibes for your crop
Sup OG, I recently harvested my last run, they were fem seeds, and it was seeded pretty decently (not every bud but most buds have a few seeds). I know none of the plants were true herms but I did have a power outage that fucked with the light schedule so they were thrown off pretty bad. They did throw some balls and I cut off what I thought was all of them but obviously not lol. This was a straight fruity run, very terpy so I assume this progeny would have something nice in them. The seeds are very beautiful, they are mature seeds and most have the âtiger stripingâ.
So, that being said, I want to grow some of these out without the unnecessary stress. My question is, would these have a high likelihood of showing intersex traits, since they came from a fem who threw nuts? Or would this just be a happy accident since it was merely stress that caused the nuts to form on them?
From my experience they will be more prone to herm under stress but they could produce some awesome smoke if you roll the dice on them.
Sounds good, thanks broski
Read:
Principles of Plant Breeding -Robert Allard
Plant Breeding -Jack Brown, Peter Caligari, Hugo Campos
Principles of Cultivar Development, Vol 1. Theory and Technique -Walter Fehr
Also this one gets thrown in there a lot and is more up to date on molecular and GMO techniques, but I have found it has a lot of typos and isnât as useful as the previous 3:
Principles of Plant Genetics and Breeding - George Acquaah
I love DJ Shorts strains, but he makes a lot of incorrect breeding statements in his book. Most Cannabis-centered breeding books are very shallow in information, mostly just talking about basic Mendelian inheritance and Punnetâs squares.
The fastest way to breed is to use females only, especially when line breeding. Selections are more effective when the individuals are female and express the traits you are interested in (i.e. buds). Also selfing is twice as effective at inbreeding compared to full-sib (brotherXsister) matings.
*Fehr, 1987
Reversing females does not change their genetic sequence and is not genetic modification.
The male chromosome contributes nothing to the genetics of the female plant to be cropped and is not needed in breeding. Genetic males are only necessary in wild populations for survival and when growing for food seed.
I do believe the male contributes to actually achieving a strain instead of creating âcropper phenosâ. Tomato tomatoe. Sounds like something a lesbian couple might say about their cloned fem phenotype kid. Males are more important than females if you are actually breeding⌠IMO.
A female only line is a strain. No male needed. Female only lines can be bred.
No i dont think so. I think the way i get it gmo is geneticslly modified as where in this case its genetically selected. Nothing is modified. Just chosen from to refine further. I know this old. Thsnks to whoever moved it to front page i prob wouldnt found it. Good info here.
By reversal only though introducing the stress factor in that breeding. Which means what For stability of that seed.
But what im still not getting is they base fem seeds being used as a risk. Yet if you bought good fem seeds these should be pretty stable. The line should be worked a bit for $10-$20 a seed. (not to say all are but a good breeder works the lines weaknesses out)
Now if the fem seed is stable. Multiple seeds run no herm no stresses smooth sailing.very similar plants. Almost identical (seems to be stable)
now if that fem seed is stable where would the risk be? If 2stable lines a feminized and a regular male are crossed without a reversal in that actual cross i would think the previous reversal in one of the lines thats already proven stable afterwards wont play any negative part in the offspring. But im nowhere near a breeder. Just trying to make sense of it all.
Is there anything specific to look for in a keeper male? Other than structure and overall health.
I neglected my male for the most part but he still looks really healthy n smells of old piss. Its my only male of the strain so i guess it dont matter. He is the one.
But is there anything specific i can look for to have an idea if hes considered a good breeding male or not? Cause i cant speak on his flower like i can the chosen cuts to pollenate. The cuts are proven flowered tested and kept (thier mothers)
Are all keeper males selected on growth characteristics only ? If so im good on both ends.
My further opinion is if the male played no part why would we cross strains. I mean before feminizing and selfing days.
Example
How did original blueberry profile come about and so on. They werent reversing. Werent girl on girl. They were male to female chosen combinations that gained traits from both ends. I think im right.
The general rules to follow when selecting males or females are the same as if you were selecting from a group of females. Structure flower density and production and the traits you notice when smoking. Thereâs the thing with males as outside of a few general traits, its basically trial and error. Experience with large numbers and different strains helps narrow things down. Stem rubs, looking for trichromes on the male, early flowering (bad thing), flower density, node spacing, height etc. There are some tricks that guys have to weed out the bland males, but I donât know anything particular. Outside of mathematics and genotype mapping and looking good on paper, I still value the genetic contribution of males and will use them for breeding and pollen chucking. I still run a fem seed now and then yâknow the ice cream gelato surprise, or the incredible brucebanned glue (never did get to the gsc lol) but I play the sex game non-lgbt. When are we gonna change regular to straight when it comes to seeds cause hey theres nothing âregularâ about male cannabis seeds. This whole fem seed thing must be another plot against men, perpetrated by militant non-gender specified lawyer-grown cannabis⌠oh ya and the DEA LOL LOL
