Brix levels, do they matter? What raises the Brix level? šŸ”„

@HolyAngel Thanks I missed that one scrolling on my phone earlier.

Seems like heā€™s indicating that there is an interaction between ammonium nitrate and sugars in the medium, not in the plant? So probably not an issue for soil less gardens, but maybe a concern for organic growers (probably not using NH4 anywayā€¦) Then in the conclusion he more or less says we donā€™t know how this translate to smoking budsā€¦ :man_shrugging:

My current understanding is your plants should be within a healthy ā€œrangeā€ but trying to push it higher and higher might not be the best way to increase resin, thc, smell etc. and there are better ways to achieve this outside of high brix.

Wish I had more to contribute aside from my half-baked hunches, but Iā€™ve learned some neat stuff from this thread :+1:. This is some time go back to school shit for me :rofl:

back to the shadows for me (aka time to stfu)ā€¦ poooof :ghost:

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Well said. :star_struck:
If this is the case for me, would you recommend trying to increase the transpiration rate?
Maybe lower humidity a bit more.
Or maybe raising the temp?
I am already around 80-85.

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If I am not mistaken that is yellow light.
You seem to be saying that yellow light light is not the best for photosynthesis.
I was askinā€™ about that a while ago.

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Ahh in the case, transpiration wonā€™t help but either lowering the light intensity or increasing the temperature will help!

Or removing top fan leaves will help but donā€™t recommend this in many cases

Ah and that is high enough temp then probably have to lower the light intensity in this case

Or if you donā€™t see any problem you donā€™t necessarily have to get rid of purpling stems/petioles (anyway, itā€™s more of permanent damage and not necessarily damaging your plant)
But in the extreme case, or the plant becoming way purple on stem/petiole in short period of time you may want to change your radiation to temperature ratio

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Oh i could have specified better
I didnā€™t meant exact 400nm wave length actually but somewhere in between 400-700nm

But it seems like it can vary and hereā€™s a paper that measured the anthocyanin in purple cannabis plants as well as expected spectrum absorbed by the anthocyanin

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Okay so the paper refers to the green light 500-600nm but green and yellow are fairly close spectrum tho.

Anyway, as you are aware of it, but for othersā€¦
what the paper meant is that green light, which the spectrum often ignored in horticulture, can do meaningful amount of photosynthesis.

But i mean there is no reason to necessarily follow the green light because still it is ineffective and inefficient than blue or red light. However, if you get full spectrum, you have all light spectrum so less of headache as well

And the paper you mentioned that 580-600nm where inhib the growth in lettuce or smth like that.

And what i meant is that anthocyanin absorb some radiation instead of chlorophyll absorbing it to decrease photosyn. Tho, iā€™m not sure what happen to absorbed energy via anthocyanin actually. Have to look into it.

So those are two different interesting points, I guess

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On the late ā€¦ iā€™m just jealous of this graphic. Simple and neat to understand how to best use a brix meter, found on the link of @Terpsnpurps.

Itā€™s a cheap tool but it can help greatly when used at the right time for the right reason. Nothing fancy to know on the use, just the usually misunderstanding that canna is not ā€œone whole plantā€ but more multiples nodes representing a timeline but also an hormonal evolution.

I personally blast all the time my plants at 1Kw/sqm at less than 1 feet, useless to say why i like this tool lol

The location of the probe have its importance. You donā€™t test an old leave that serve just like a tank the same way that a fresh shoot at 100% photosynthesis ^^ Not the same data collected, not the same purpose.

Increasing the quality of the weed : hell yeah, but more in the concept of a genotype where you pick the phenos the most effiscient. A little final polish on a selection already made.

For a weed prod, itā€™s more a manner to perfectly dial the nutes/light density of a cut during all the main steps (mature veg, end stretch, mid flo, potency peak). It can boost the quality (reducing traces of nutes in final product), but itā€™s more to dial the yield/grade and the cost/mĀ² in general lol

For breeding it have multiple purpose, at the moment you have a methodism behind of course. If you search to boost precursors by example (wel all do ^^), you increase drastically your chances in screening the highest sugars content with the brix meter on the range youā€™re aiming (with high density of light). Just an example, itā€™s not hard to be creative with this tool ^^

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I hadnā€™t seen the video where the guy made that claim but itā€™s a big one without a ton of evidenceā€¦

There are a few studies on other species (1 2 ) but hardly a lot of data.

I wouldnā€™t be surprised if plants have the machinery to do it, but it does make little sense to release nitrogen back into the soil unless thereā€™s serious survival pressure to do so or a huge upside. With microbes available itā€™s a lot cheaper to just give up some carbon and eat the nitrogen in whatever form that results from their work and death.

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Crossposting this in support:

Endocytosis. In that, plants are capable of absorbing molecules much larger than ions. Organic compounds, amino acids, etc. Prior theories expound that turgor pressures would prevent absorption of large molecules. Research, relatively recent early 2K, suggests that may not be the case.

Protein and low inorganic nitrogen in combination supported better growth of Arabidopsis than protein or low inorganic nitrogen alone. (A ) No nitrogen added. (B ) Protein only (6 mg BSA per ml). (C ) Inorganic nitrogen only (0.04 mg NH4NO3 per ml). (D ) Protein plus inorganic nitrogen (5.4 mg BSA per ml and 0.04 mg NH4NO3 per ml). [1]

We identified two mechanisms by which Hakea and Arabidopsis access protein. First, root-derived proteases break down protein. A smaller protein (ā‰ˆ50 kDa) was generated in the incubation solution of Arabidopsis roots when roots were supplied with a larger protein (66 kDa), and a proteinā€“chromophore complex was cleaved by root-derived proteases of Hakea and Arabidopsis .

The second mechanism of protein acquisition observed was the uptake of intact protein. Although the uptake of protein into roots has not been considered previously, integrated endocytotic and secretory networks have been described in tip-growing root hairs (24). It is likely that protein enters root hairs via endocytosis and that root cells subsequently catabolize the acquired protein, but other possibilities, including membrane transport, cannot be ruled out. [2]

On Xylem transport and amino acid formation [3]:

Depending on the plant species, environmental conditions, and diurnal rhythm, amino acid assimilation might occur in roots and/or leaves (Coruzzi, 2003). Amino acids that are synthesized in roots or that are taken up directly from the soil are mainly translocated in the xylem to the shoot. Since transpiration is highest in photosynthetically active leaves, a relatively high amount of root-derived amino acids is transported to leaves. Here, amino acids are imported into the mesophyll cells, such as by AtLHT1 (Hirner et al., 2006), where they are utilized (e.g. for proteins involved in carbon (C) assimilation) or transiently stored in the form of vegetative storage proteins (Staswick, 1994; Klauer et al., 1996) and as amino acids in vacuoles (Tilsner et al., 2005). Alternatively, the amino acids are directly transferred into the leaf phloem for redistribution to flower, fruit, and seed sinks (Lalonde et al., 2003). Additionally, transfer of amino acids from the xylem to the phloem occurs along the long-distance transport pathway for direct N delivery to growing sinks (Pate et al., 1977).

There are quite a number of papers published on the subject and can be found via Google as ā€œEndocytosis in Plantsā€

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It was just that those two species (Hakea and Arabidopsis) were picked specifically for the study because they grow in areaā€™s without any natural fungi/mycoā€™s present that would normally do the breaking down of the things for the plants to use. Those two specific plants produce their own enzymes and ways to access those proteins and thatā€™s why they were studied. It does not imply all or even most plants can do this. We need more research :thinking: Once this schedule 3 thing goes through I bet weā€™ll see an explosion of cannabis specific research papers.

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God I hope soā€¦ :pray: itā€™s definitely still in pioneering stage where we do not know everything about itā€¦ and I sure wish we did already :smile:

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Very cool man thank you, how you been brother?

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My guess for this comes from the idea that nitrate must be reduced twice before it can be assimilated as protein. Each reduction (nitrate->nitrite->ammonium) step requires some amount of ATP which requires glucose which requires photosynthesis.

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No it comes from statements from a nutrient company @grow

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Eh, that too. Companies are keen to take a shred of science and run with it lol

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i guessā€¦ i mean im inclined to consider it important. overall weight, heavier healthier plants , sounds like the direction i want to be headed lol

Well, thatā€™s why I wrote the bit about nitrate reductionā€¦ thereā€™s potentially some science behind what theyā€™re saying, but the real world effects will require some digging or experimentation with a refractometer to uncover.

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Well I supposeā€¦ it seems to meā€¦ these things are easier attained by an organic growerā€¦ now with that being said hydro may be able to accomplish the same thingsā€¦ but , and this is 1 big but lolā€¦ the hydro growers have to do it in a certain way to actually raise the brix correctlyā€¦ where this likely happens naturally organicallyā€¦ is more of a science experiment and difficult path for hydroā€¦
From everything I see posted by any growers forum or even health department articles on food and brix levels all state that organic is where the flavor and richness comes fromā€¦ higher brix levels etcā€¦
So in the endā€¦ if high brix levels does this in ALL other plantsā€¦ then why would we question if it does in the cannabis plant? Itā€™s like we are turning a blind eye to the facts because we donā€™t want to talk shit on hydro growingā€¦ again that isnā€™t what this isā€¦ yet it comes close to it because of the factsā€¦
Which are :

  • High brix provides more nutritional values than low brix
  • high brix plants (bugs that suck your plant dry will ignore them) low brixā€¦ here come the plant sucking bugs)
    -high brix = more plant weight overall , low brix does not do this
    High brix = more flavor low brix tastes more like water. (This is proven in fruits and vegetables)

So at the end without any further researchā€¦ Iā€™m for high brix plants 100 percent. For reasons stated ā€¦ Iā€™m in it for quality.

Interesting topic/discussion! I remember seeing this BRIX topic pop up a few times on here and earlier I caught it on the label of a new product I am giving a tryā€¦

Build-A-Soil is a legitimate company with a high interest in whatā€™s best organically for the plant/soil. Obviously, we can tell where they lean on BRIXā€¦ as one of their most popular products is advertised as a ā€œBRIX enhancerā€.

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Edit: Youā€™re talking after itā€™s absorbed by the plant? Iā€™ll leave the below either way. At a quick glance this is far over my noggin already but Iā€™ll give it a try :smiley:

This is the wrong direction? Nitrate (NO3-) is already available to the plant. Ammonium nitrate (NO4+) is also, but is usually found is small amounts in most fertilizers.

right?

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