Hello,
After hundreds of hours of reading this forum and several attempts I still cannot seem to get the transplanting/pre-charging of coco right. The plants shoot up 3-4 weeks after transplant so I assume that I don’t prepare the coco correct, they suffer from lockouts/deficiencies for a while and after the buffer is filled they recover.
Last time I actually used Canna so I have no excuse I know most people suffer from salt toxicities from fresh coco but I believe I “undercharged it”. I always put the coir in a bin with holes on the bottom I check the run off of the solution I run through it.
This last Canna had very good EC levels of 0.6 EC and I poured a balanced solution of Micro/bloom, Silica, Epson and Nitric acid. EC 1.2-1.3 with starting tap water EC of 0.4 (about 170-190 ppm carbonates, 60ppm Ca, 10ppm Mg). ph of 5.8-6.
I only ran enough to get the run off to 0.8-0.9 … Quite stupid. The plants looked pale and weak before I run some stronger solution through, now they are perking up and greening up nicely.
I also must say that after I moisten the coco I squeeze every bit of moisture I can and put it in 4-6l fabric pots trying not to pack it down too much. I also try to water slowly.
My questions:
I am considering the idea that perhaps by just running the solution through the media I am not charging it well enough. Do you think a thorough soak for some time and then squeezing moisture out and using it will be better?
In this connection, and this might be a dumb question, but does the speed of watering influence the amount of cation exchange that takes place? In other words, does cation exchange need some time to occur or does it happen immediately as you are flushing the coir?
I know bagged Canna is supposed to be buffered but is it worth increasing the Ca and Mg in the nutes for the initial prep just to be sure?
How much do you tamp down the coco around the rootball when transplanting?
I notice the ph of the solution stays very stable if the rez is covered but increases if it is not. Is it safe to assume that this means it will also gradually increase in the root zone or is it that the coir chemistry might influence it in all sorts of ways?
On ICMag most advised me to just dump the coir in the pot, put the plant in and start feeding. I feel that will make the coco too wet for too long in the beginning but I will give it a try next time.
Any other suggestions are welcome. Thanks for your time
I cant exactly give you answers but i can tell you what works for me. I use small pots 0.5L and 1L so they dry out pretty fast so i never squeeze liquid out, im assuming seeing as the nutrients are water soluble when you squeeze water out the nutes also get removed to some extent compared to mine where i let it dry out, speed of watering to my knowlege doesnt change much except that slow watering means the coco can absorb the liquid as when its dry and you water fast the water can literally pour out the bottom. My staple for watering is megacrop nd epsom salt from seedling. When filling my pots i just dump it in there and let the water tamp it down then add more where needed. yes the ph changes in the root zone over time i know that one, its why we check the runoff ph, ofcourse the medium effects it but coco coir is pretty stable i think. If you think that youll make the plant too wet then try water less? Not trying to sound funny oh i also let my ph between 5.8 and 6.3, mine seem to like it.
Coco got a lot easier for me once I began cutting it with perlite 50/50 or even as high as 75:25 perlite:coco
Coco does weird things with nutrients and pH especially as pure media, especially in large volume hand watered. You won’t notice coco’s problems as much with small pots with frequent automatic irrigation, it exchanges the water sitting in the coco too much for it to be noticeable.
It helps if you rehydrate bricks of coco with nutrient solution as a prebuffer. Higher quality coco like Canna brand is usually less finicky, but not a huge difference IME.
Other than that, you’ll be flushing the media quite a bit to correct the cation exchance of coco. It balances out eventually. You’ll probably have to do 3-5 big flushes totally exchanging the solution in the media before it begins to abate. This really sucks on big heavy hand watered pots if you don’t have a drain in the floor.
I don’t tamp down the coco media much, just water the transplant in, takes care of it. It’s a very soft media, and roots will find their way very within a few days.
I’ve used coco coir for a long time now. For me, it was more about finding a lighter (weight) medium to use over soil as it is/was difficult getting to my grow area, then back out afterwards.
Early on, I also rehydrated coco bricks, rinsed the medium, used it, got some plants, but was never happy with them.Bagged coir was/is to expensive for me, but a freaking great product.
As vernal stated, cutting it with copious amounts of perlite helped. Once I started to wash the dust from the Perlite I was using, I started to see better plants but still lacking.
Now, I use coco coir chips, a brick gets rehydrated in Recharge. I then add in a huge bad of perlite, a bag of wriggler compost, a bag of mushroom compost, and some Dr.Earth products, Neem meal, acid mix, Biolive, oyster shell, feather meal.
My plants are loving it. The feather meal really keeps just enough N in late flower that does not interfere with flowering at all.
I’m going to mix up a batch and use some cow poop peat, and drop some of the DrEarth for a run to get a feel for it.
So many ways.
My method is to use high quality bagged and pre buffered coco.
Then I just soak it in a strong calmag / weak nute solution in a bucket or big tote for 8+ hours. Mixing it well from time to time while its soaking.
Then I squeeze most of the liquid and start potting. Feeding is also covered on the cocoforcannabis site.
Yeah I always put it in a container large enough to hold it all and be able to add enough water for it to move/float easily. The water I use has a double dose of calmag and kelp extract. I let it sit 8-12 hours and then use a 5gallon radicle bag to strain the coco out leaving behind the water, sand and really small coco particles.
I’ve heard it takes time for the cal and mag to replace the sodium and potassium bonds within the coco. I’ve also noticed that removing the micro coco pith has made my plants grow better.
Thanks everybody, I will put all suggestions to the test soon. I will probably do a side-by-side of straight out the bag vs soaked coir. I am considering the perlite suggestion too, or some silica based similar product.
I actually transplanted a few clones today. Used Canna coco straight out the bag, put the clones in without tamping, and watered slowly with a 1.3EC 5.9pH solution equal to the volume of the cup (300ml each). The run off EC got to 1.3 easily; however the run off pH was 5-5.1. I know not to worry too much about it but still I wonder why that happens.
Coir chips huh? I looked them up, perhaps you can use them instead of perlite to improve aeration? BTW is there any point of me inoculating with stuff if using mineral fertilizer? I think mycos won’t thrive in P levels above 30ppm.
I’ve read how coco also continues to breakdown thru the grow… exposing new cation sites that add a lil K and suck up Ca. I need to go back and refresh my old brain
Lol
You need to feed plants in coco daily (even when they are tiny) just enough to last 24hrs, don’t let them dry out, that causes nutrient burn and ph swings. No need for runoff every time either, that over saturates the coco, starving roots of oxygen and risking rot.
Hey bigbo, I use the chips to hold the the BO’s in ReCharge. You could use all chips, I’m however a a cheap gardner, and build my medium for lite weight, to get stuff to my area.
The compost seemed to marry the slower release of the Dr Earth products I use. Sort of like I do not have a lag time with this medium.
I always heard, to use prepared nutrient lines, with a perilite type medium, was far better for growth.
I put this mix to work with a week of rest after mixing it, and it is slamming, plants from 4 inch pots to going into flower 3 gallon pots. Now I just got grow with it, monitor it, and see what happens through the winter.
The compost/perlite has become my go to clone medium, in wee plastic rinse cups,pokey holes in the bottom. It works a treat for me, to hell with pucks/rooters/domes/trays and heater mats. I can put 4-6 cuts in a single cup, mash them down until they pee, and 2 weeks later, simple swish the root mass in some water, and they rooted clones seperate super easy. BUT I only get about a 65%-75% return of cut2clones, this way. Perfect for a wee home gardener.
This is how you do it! First time user of coco followed these instructions worked flawlessly! The coco did anyway. I let mine sit in the bath overnight cause I’m lazy. Even used the shitty bricks. Great site!
I know most people suffer from salt toxicities from fresh coco but I believe I “undercharged it”. I always put the coir in a bin with holes on the bottom I check the run off of the solution I run through it.
oh i also let my ph between 5.8 and 6.3, mine seem to like it.