Common Traits Of Males & Females When Breeding

Breeder's Lab
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I’ve never made a seed in my life, so I’m not sure why you’re asking me haha. I’ve FOUND a few seeds in some of my buds (maybe they selfed? I dunno), but I’ve never grown a male out and used it to pollinate anything. I’ve done a lot of reading about breeding, but not recently and usually just for fun. I’ve never had any intention on making my own crosses, except maybe a preservation run. But all that involves is growing a pack of seeds out and putting everything in a room together with each other (not saying it ain’t work, but anybody can do that)(thanks, @nube). There are plenty of people making seeds; I don’t think we need any more. Probably could do with fewer “breeders,” actually.

What I’ve concluded about breeding, especially from what “breeders” are doing these days, is: what’s your goal? Do you even have a goal? Or are you just trying to make money? To me, it doesn’t really make any sense to take some insane polyhybrid and cross it with another polyhybrid. What purpose does that serve? You’re never going to get a true-breeding seed line, no matter if you work that line for ten generations. There’s too many variables.

If what you’re interested in is creating, like, a totally new “strain,” the only way to do that (as far as I understand it) is to take two true-breeding, un-hybridized, “pure” strains (I guess landraces?) and cross them with each other. Or that’d be the simplest and most efficient way, as far as I know. To take something like GSC and cross it with some other bullshit polyhybrid doesn’t make any sense to me. The plants are gonna be all over the place. To take GSC and cross it with something like Cherry Pie, which from what I know is a GSC derivative, is just asinine. What’re you doing? What purpose does that serve? You’re just bottlenecking genetics. Which is why you see a lot of these kind of spindly, shitty-yielding, tiny-nug plants all over the place.

These are just examples.

Anyway, yeah, I don’t know anything about making seeds haha. I really don’t. I’ve got plenty of opinions about the assholes MAKING seeds, because I’ve got an opinion about everything, but I don’t know anything about breeding. Having said that, @nube, if you’ve got any of those

seeds, I’ll pay top-dollar for them. I saw your pics of those on IG and they were FROSTY. That means it’s really good smoke, right?

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Or create an IBL and outcross it with another IBL to regain hybrid vigor similar to what @Tonygreen did with the GG4 RIL. :+1::seedling:

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Yeah, exactly. And that’s a lot of fucking work haha! Way more than I’m willing to do. My hat goes off to anybody willing to put in real breeding work.

I also don’t think most people are intelligent or thoughtful enough to do that work. I know I’m not. I’m always extremely impressed with the people who can pull it off and pull it off well. Like Bodhi.

I’m afraid what @NorthNorthNugs is asking is,”How do I make seeds? Because I wanna sell some.” I could very well be wrong there; I don’t know. Maybe we’re just talking. But the world really could do with fewer assholes making bullshit crosses so they can sell them online.

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I get where you are coming from, but on the other hand, if someone wants to breed, no one should stop them. Dont wanna discourage someone because youre afraid they will make stuff you wont buy anyway. Who knows what kind of breeder theyll become years down the road or what they could contribute.

IG hype stuff is what it is, but no one has to engage and fools and their money are soon parted. It will take care of itself. We just need to worry about preserving stuff that needs it and as long as important genetics are available we’ll be good.

Biggest issue I see is the culture in general focusing on hybrids and losing the stock they came from so future breeders will have less tools available to them. But we can’t control others, just ourselves and cant have future breeders if new ones are discouraged. Everyones gotta start somewhere.

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For sure, dude. You wanna make your own crosses, by all means, please do it. I’ve had fantasies of crossing one thing to another for sure. I probably will do it. One day… haha. But at least have a goal in mind.

Or don’t have a goal in mind. I dunno. Who gives a shit? Haha!!

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Full disclosure, I have dreamed of breeding and selling one day so Im biased, but my plans are long term and with lots of testing and growing out and backcrossing and stablizing and all that jazz. I agree, not a big fan of first generation hype strain chucking crosses for high prices. No plans to really make money on it ANY time soon. Or maybe ever, who knows if it doesnt go well. Didnt stop me from registering a name on IG though for it.

Plan to do lots AND lots of free seeds for test runs here on OG and get consistent results before I would ask anyone for money. With document grow logs for all. But that is also kinda general ethics and how to run a business for long term success and not trying to make a quick buck off your customers. Like, I dunno, putting seeds up for sale before your testers, who paid for their testers, even get to germinate? No reason I brought that up.

Worst case scenerio, I manage to send bunch of people some free seeds and I enjoyed day dreaming about it for awhile.

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Were those repeatedly line bred, or backcrossed before they combined them?

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interesting to read, sounds like some real planned out stuff, good to see

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Wait. I thought I was on the Bodhi thread when I was leaving those responses. Saw that there were two “replies alerts” on some “Common Traits” thread just now and was like,”What the fuck is that? I’m not following that thread,” haha.

Okay, guess I’m following another fucking thread now… haha.

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Yes both backcrossed.

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@minitiger I do not regret bringing your insight into this thread at all :joy::joy: you kill me dude lol! I figured you may have some knowledge about what I was asking and if not, at least it would be entertaining. Thanks for the response.

Nah I’m not out here trying to make bullshit crosses to make money. As you said about IG/Hype/“Breeders”… fuck all that shit. I’m just a nerd about this stuff for some reason. I find it all really fascinating. Do I want to make my own crosses and seeds? sure. But it’s more to do with actually advancing genetics for me, like right now I’m really interested in type II (mixed ratio) plants. I’d like to try and breed some THC:CBD(V)/THCV/CBG(V) stuff and see what happens. I’d love to make my own strain… why should all these “breeders” have all the fun?!

Ya that’s what I meant when I said “…and vice versa with the females”

Ah yes, the sign of a true breeder. Can you tell me more breeders doing work like this? Had to Google the acronym RIL. Recombinant Inbred Line for those that didn’t know. Pretty neat.

I often get so frustrated when I’m looking at seedbanks and there’s never any information or write ups on the packs they’re selling. Total horse shit! Happens way too often. To be clear, this is just an observation of mine. I never buy any seeds from any breeder/seedbank I haven’t vetted first. I find that typically you have to do so much digging to find info out there but it’s worth it. I’m not window shopping seeds like some brain dead moron. People are buying this shit tho… This is exactly why I started this thread. I don’t want to get suckered in to buying other peoples lazy shit work. None of us should. We need to educate! Spread the knowledge!

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Seems like there’s something to be said for picking a cultivar and working the line in a specific direction. You’d be simultaneously becoming intimately familiar with the plants, and stabilizing the genetics along the way so that you could more intelligently predict what you’d get out of crosses. The most respected breeders seemed to do that for a majority of their time before mixing in outside genetics. BOG with the bubblegum and DJ Short with the blueberry jump to mind

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I’ve seen a few of these topics come up recently, here and on IG and no one really touches on a specific thing with this.

Like breeds like, but not exactly alike.

You need to have a goal when breeding if you really want to create something special.

If you’re line breeding, you should be picking the pheno (s) you want to proliferate, and then finding matching males to those phenotypes to make seeds with. I don’t agree with finding the “best” male regardless of pheno/genotype when it comes to line breeding. You need the best male that matches your girl(s) or you’re just creating more work for yourself/others. Basically just making more of what you already have, with just some different variations on it, instead of isolating a line in your strain and moving forward. However, this can be useful if you have limited starting seeds, in order to give you a larger pool to look at so that you can do what I stated to begin with.

I agree with controlled “open” pollination. Only done after culling all other non-chosen phenos(male and female alike), separately collecting all the pollen from the males and then pollinating with all of it all at once.
True open pollination, as in the wild, drives everything we want down instead of up. The quickest males get in first and not much comes from the late blooming males.

Like breeds like.

If you’re outcrossing then things are a bit different. But ALL the traits of each parent are potentially passable in every single cross you make. You have to test to see what is dominant. Both for the males AND the females.
Specific Combining Ability.
Sometimes your best looking plants, when crossed together, will produce garbage offspring, and vice versa. The scraggly plants produce gold. Or maybe F1 x M1 is good but F1 x M2 is fantastic even though they’re all the same pheno and look identical. The only way to know is to test and grow the progeny while keeping clones of all the parents. Or just do it and whatever :man_shrugging:

All the legendary strains, along with all our fruits and vegetables, came from heavy selection, not open pollinating everything, nor smashing everything together.

That’s all I got for now :money_with_wings:

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Yeah, exactly. And like what you’re doing (or were doing) with the NL5Haze/Sensi Star/Pablo’s Cheese stuff. Was it Pablo’s Cheese? Franco’s Cheese? Something like that, anyway. Those are all relatively stable and true-breeding strains. Worked lines. Which to me seems like would produce more predictable results, thus making it easier to isolate and breed toward more specific traits that you’re looking for.

Sorry, I’ve been on a rampage the last few weeks, drunk as shit all day and night. I just woke up from my mid-afternoon nap/pass out, I don’t know if I’m making any sense.

But yeah, to take something like GSC and breed it with some other bullshit like Gelato or whatever, that doesn’t make any sense to me, unless you’re just trying to sell seeds.

Sweet. Glad I didn’t disappoint.

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If youre not crossing strains soley to make punny strain names wtf are you even doing?

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I think the phrase you’re looking for is “sex-linked traits”. I don’t know of any for certain. I’d google it.

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I do it just for seeds. Knowing this it’s like a apple. Not all the seeds are going to make a sweet apple. I’m sure you know this from what I have read. I like my own seeds. I’m I able to hammer back and forth no. I’m no pro. I will put clones with a male plant. The seeds come out mixed. Nothing fancy. I’m very interested in the making of seeds. I don’t like some of the names. Some do scary me. I have had bad runs. Lol

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Takes more generations, then maybe multiple runs of the same plant, and just simply more time so you can be sure of what you even have to start with before you can breed anything than most seem to want to spend. (Way too long of a sentence)

Pollen chucking hype squared for quick cash takes way less time but isnt something I would be comfortable doing, both out of respect to the breeders of the hype and to the customers themselves.

I already have my own business and take pride in that. If I were to start anything in the weed sector of any kind I would want to be proud of what I put into that too. That is what drives me to learn about weed/plant specific genetics and breeding so I can do so with apurpose instead of spray and pray. And try to breed it as true to a single desired result/pheno as possible barring another goal if I want to call it a strain and not just a quick f1 cross.

My PhD virologist father is also intrigued and wanting to help. Not necessarily his specialty by any means but hes retired and has too much time on his hands recently and couldnt care less about weed in general but loves genetics and science. Both interested in freakshow and how to stablize that recessive trait into other strains with desirable phenos or traits.

Plus its an excuse to play with the new elitexelite spray I got to dabble in fems. Who doesnt like new toys?

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Very good. I agree. I like new toys. Good stuff.

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Also excited to give out free seeds as I experiment.

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