Roots don’t go straight for a drain like a air stone so should be good. Biggest worry of 2 different strain in the same container is if they flower at different rates. If one is a 8 week strain and the other 10 not a good idea.
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Thanks. I wont worry so much about the roots then. It occurred to me that I should be able to easily check for root blockage in the bell siphon chamber. It will have a shield around it to keep the hydroton out, so I can just have a removable cover over that so I can see down inside and clear any roots that do get into it.
I wasnt worrying about the different strains flowering at different rates. I just assumed I could harvest the one that finished first and let the other one go a little longer if needed. Would that not work for some reason?
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Dead plant matter invites bugs and mold (mold exp in hydro). I kinda look at it like if your partner died in bed next to you would you still want them next to you for a couple weeks.
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LOL!! I hadnt considered that! Gross!
Hmmmm Is it possible to “harvest” all the buds from one plant without killing it? Im not going to be smoking any of this, so thats not an issue.
Bro bulk heads arnt that much. Should change your id to jew gold lol. Here’s bulk heads for 1.17$.
http://www.horticulturesource.com/mobile_product_info.php?products_id=17214&gclid=Cj0KCQiAwKvTBRC2ARIsAL0Dgk0X1MYhslQo2S7_O_MjJoCBThMFpSVWuChqEy8OQgjHCALnNyxau_YaAkbiEALw_wcB
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Ha! Im not sure Im any cheaper than you 
Thats a great price for the fittings! I was looking at $4-$8 ea on Amazon.
Thanks!!
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Yesterday, I was about to give up on my bell siphon/air pump combo. I just couldnt get the pump to fill the container fast enough to reliably trip the siphon. If it doesnt trip, then the pots wont drain and the water stays at full level, which I guess could drown your roots.
But then today I tried some variations with different siphons and some mods and got it to trip every time. I also tested out the rez in its final position and made sure the air pump could lift water hi enough and fast enough to make it all work - and it does!
I wont have actual numbers until I get some hydroton into the totes Im using, but it looks like fill times will be aprox 10-15 minutes with around 2 minutes for the drain. Thats filling two 5 gal totes from a 17 gal rez.
I was also very worried about noise. The air pump I have is one of those cheap ‘commercial’ aquarium pumps. I had it sitting on my work bench and it was louder than heck! Turns out my bench was acting as a resonator. I piece of scrap carpet and actually bolting it down, solved that problem.
The only design goal I missed was the height of the grow totes inside the tent. I was hoping to lower the scrog screen by 6 " or so on the next grow, but Im only going to manage about 3" lower.
I cant wait to finish this grow and get this up and running.
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Here is a rough sketch of how the system is setup. The air lift pump and siphon together cost less than $10 to make. Everything else is just standard totes and buckets with the usual fittings and hoses to connect everything together.
With the two 5 gal totes inside my grow tent, they may tend to want to warm up the water too much, so I may need to insulate them with some foam insulation. I may not need to do that, but will have to wait and see.
So far, it looks like a simple loop siphon works just as well or even better than the bell siphon or a ‘T’ siphon and its much easier to make. I need to run some more tests with more repeat cycles to be sure though.
So - fully automatic ebb and flow on the cheap with no timers or mechanical pumps
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Now THAT’S how you grow. When you want to grow, THAT IS how you grow!
I seem to be the only person thats excited about this technique for doing ebb/flow on the cheap. Im guessing its a little to far outside the norm for most. Thats ok - I tend to do that when I get to fiddling around with something
I ran some more realistic tests today and Im getting real close to achieving all my design goals.
I raised the rez up an additional 4", so now I can easily get a full size 5 gal bucket under the drain spout.
That in turn increased the ‘head’ and flow rate on the air lift pump. I can get the same flow rates or more, with lower air pressure.
That in turn allowed me to lower the 5 gal totes an additional 4", so I can lower my scrog screen down to where I want it or maybe even an extra inch.
That also means that only the top 3" of the 5 gal totes will be inside the tent, with 5 inches outside the tent, below the top of the work bench. So, hopefully, I should have even less of a water heating issue with the rez. I can insulate the sides of the totes and cover the top with a piece of insulation board to help even more.
Also, it looks like I can run 3 of my DIY air stones in the rez and still have the air lift pump work more than fast enough. Those three stones will keep the rez aerated and stirred up really well. Fill times are right at 15-16 minutes but the drain time went up from 2 minutes to 3 minutes.
I “think” that cycle rate will be just fine. From what I have read, people are using all kinds of cycle rates - from roughly what I will have to as low as once every 4 hours at the slowest. Ive decided thats its probably not critical at all considering that DWC has the roots in water 100% of the time and NFT setups only have a thin film of water. Of course, I wont know for sure until I get some plants in and see how happy they are
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Hi Larry3215,
This is Brian from the Apera Instruments customer support. After finding this post on the web, I noticed that you had an issue of purchasing our PC60 Multiparameter Pocket Tester for your DIY hydro. I was, however, uncertain if you tried to purchase this item from Apera Instruments directly.
Please know that we ARE NOT a scam company and have been doing business in this industry for over 27 years http://aperainst.com/about-us/.
This is an order case that we were not aware of, but are willing to investigate further as to what might have happened and find the best solution for your full satisfaction.
When you have a moment, please do contact our office number at 614-285-3080 or feel free to email me directly at briang@aperainst.com for us to solve this case.
Thank you for your cooperation and happy growing!
Best Regards,
Apera Instruments Customer Support
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Nice to see a stand up company! Thanks for reaching out to help. 
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Hi Brian, it was not your company that I had issues with. I was buying on Ebay through a seller who seems to be in Asia somewhere. That seller is the scammer, not you guys.
I did finally get a refund of my full purchase price from Ebay, so that is resolved. They were a little slow, but they came through.
I decided to stick with the same model, brand and purchased the PC60 on Amazon. I just noticed that you guys were the seller!
The PC60 came on time and it has been working very well for me so far.
Thanks for the follow up!!! Im a happy Apera customer
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Hi Larry,
Thank you for the update on your PC60 Multiparameter. It is good to hear that Ebay took care of the issue and things are solved.
I just wanted to make sure that Apera was doing everything we should for your full satisfaction, and it is great to hear that the product is working for you.
If you have any future questions or concerns you are always welcome to reach back out to us!
Thank you for being a great customer
Best Regards,
Apera Instruments Customer Support
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Hell when I replace my meter that makes me wanna buy ya’lls gear.
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Oh no! Ive run across two other options for hydro that have me all excited! That would get me up to version 362 or 363 for my next grow setup.
The only problem is, I would have to give up my auto siphons!
I like my auto siphons.
A lot…
Here are some videos on option A - basically a simple variation on NFT. Sort of a merge of Ebb/Flow tables with a variation on NFT.
and the final results
I can do this easily with my existing design - except the auto siphon wont be needed 
Here is some info on option B. I really like this option. Its probably the way Im going to go - at least until I run across something more interesting!!
This option uses less nutes, less water, needs less pumping, keeps the roots super aerated, requires less maintenance.
Here is a diagram of the layout from the patent application.
Here is the complete patent application with explanations and details. I have everything I need to do this option as well - but again, no auto siphons…
miniscus.pdf (1.1 MB)
I built my last tray for about $120 aud all upusing timber and pond lining paint/sealant stuff, for an ‘upgrade’… something easier to clean and a better insurance against leaks I ended up taking in a plan to my local plastics engineer, it should be built in the next couple of days but he is charging me $88 for the same size tray (just smaller than 2’x4’) made from 4.5mm PVC with a recess for the bulkheads.
@Viva_Mexico, I need to wait till my kids move out before I can have the room for a setup like yours… love it.
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I know no one here is really interested in trying something new or that looks this far outside the normal box, but I now have a copy of the book about the Meniscus Membrane method. Im finding it fascinating so far. This guy is an engineer and he goes over all the various hydro techniques in detail. Very informative.
Im going to up-load it to my Google docs. If anyone is interested, I will share the link.
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hehehe I suspect many of you already think Im nuts or too stoned with all this off the wall hydro stuff Ive been coming up with, so this will just confirm your suspicions. My latest plan is to do three different types of hydro at the same time in the same tent
Im currently planning to use 3ea 5 gal totes. One will be ebb/flow, One will be NFT but using a mat for the roots - as in that video above. The third will be Membrane Meniscus.
All three will have seeds from the same plant, growing in the same tent, with the same lights, same nutes, same everything. Assuming I dont kill them all, it will be an interesting comparison to see if there is any significant difference between the three techniques.
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