Aloha everyone noobie here. I’ve been growing with bottle nutes for a few seasons
Want to try subcools soil recipe but can’t find any high p bat guano. Is there a substitute? Or good proven recipes?
I’ve seen roots Organics phos rock guano
But that sounds cut with rock phosphate. I have a 80 pound bag of seabird i bought for tea. Can I leave the bay guano out and just tea or top dress with seabird?. Pi found some sites that want to ship me guano for 300 + $. Is it really that necessary?
Also is it necessary for organic bloom booster?. In soiless I had good results with Moab and cool bloom but bud taste not as killer as a friends soil grown. Mahalo in advanced
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if you want a guano - look at Budswel (0.01-0.10-0.01) for flower they also have a veg guano also - company been around just as long a Roots (Auroua) maybe longer (over 20 years)- The Guano Company
Aloha @Ronsonmatsuo4 
My first real grow was using sub’s 2015/2016 recipe — it was great but I think it was overkill & the old Vic High (RIP) super soil mix is probably just as good but cheaper.
That early super soil was supposedly inspired by a US dept of forestry nursery mix for getting trees to transplant & jumpstart.
Some people get great results using just composted manure & water only.
Long story short: the high P isn’t even used by the plant & will just be runoff/waste.
Microbes “eat” on the P source & dissolve it into stuff the plants can use.
Look for a book called Teaming With Microbes & it will help explain how & why living soil works. Teaming With Nutrients is also helpful but spends more time on the chemistry.
There’s stuff called Mammoth Microbes claiming a 20% boost in yield- I tried it & can’t say it did that. 
“Phosphorus Solublizing Bacteria” are probably already present in healthy dirt.
For cheap high P feed, check out powdered orchid food but it’s not pono IMO…
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@ronisonmatsuo4 is this indoor or out? I found out pretty quickly you need to be pretty dialed in to succeed indoors with “water only/super soils”. At least that was my experience.
At one point instead of all the powder adds, I used Botanicare Growilla Veg and Bloom. Great stuff. But spendy. Got discontinued, then resurrected as Mother Earth Meal. I see Growilla advertised again now, but I’ve moved on.
Fishbone meal.
Eventually, ditch the guano, and ditch Subcool’s recipe and tek
The ROLS thread on ICmag is great.
Clackamas Coot put out a great mix, thought its convoluted and very hot - its meant to be transplanted into (not for sprouts) and fir outdoor full sun.
I tell people to cut the food recipe by 2/3 and the mineral recipe by 1/3 and people get great results with that.
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Also, guano is Really bad for your health. Especially bat guano.
If you have a lot lying around, make a compost bin/pile, and while wearing a respirator (not a dust mask) pour your guanos in there and let it compost at least 3-6 months.
With composts and new soil mixes, i test them by growing vetch, mustard, and/or clove to see how hot the soil is. Then i chop 'n drop the greens into the soil then plant the cannabis in there.
Perlite is also bad for the lungs, and tears the roots in the soil since it floats with each watering. So, substitute with pumice. Plus, pumice has silica.
If you’re not near any coasts and cant get fishbone meal, go with soft rock phosphate. This will also feed the healthy soil fungi.
For a quick shot of P, roast eggshells til they get brown. Then soak in vinegar (just enough to cover all the shells, plus an inch) for a day or three. Add 1 Tbs per gallon.
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You can sub it out for Seabird Guano
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Cool I’ll check that out
Cool thanks for the knowledge
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@crownpoodle cool man I’m cooking recipe #2 on builds soil and they mention coot. Thanks man.this assured me I don’t need bat g
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@Wuachuma thanks man. A friend I’ve met swears by it. As for me I like to learn more and I’m glad I came onto this thread. A lot of people I talk to is saying the same. Thank You
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@Wuachuma thanks for the techniques
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Guano was popularized by 3LB (3 little birds) on the forums back in the early days of forums - i think it was on the original overgrow.
Then, there was a book made that ripped off their threads on the forums, called 3 Pounds a Light. This book became gospel for new-to-the-scene growers in NorCal who recently bought a plot of land but didn’t have the wisdom to grow like real heads, like Ras Truth.
So, its an outdated 20yr old tek that causes health issues for the growers / trimmigrants as well as for those who have to go into the caves to harvest the guano.
Fishbone meal, on the other hand, is a safe byproduct of the food industry
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@Wuachuma cool man. I just started browsing through icmag role thread but I have to go to work soon. I was thinking of doing a test run with 33-33-33 compost lava rock/pumice and soil. As a base
And no longer going to do the subcool. I bought quite a bit of ammendments from amazon(Down to earth). And was also looking at bio live to add in my base to cook. Layer the bottom of the pot with kelp fish bone and sea bird. Top layer will have alfalfa kelp and some other amendments. So I’m cooking to piles of soil. And will be making different teas for different grow stages. I feel like I’m on the right track right? Also ewc um sure if I want to add it to the cook or mix it in before use
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Yeah you should skip bat guano.
Pz 
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@LonelyOC thanks brother
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I was on the same track & would do another hot subcool mix some day just for fun, but it’s really unnecessary to buy a bunch of exotic amendments & still get the results you want.
Start making worm compost, once you have enough to use as 20% of the mix, that should be enough. Cow manure breaks down to a nice humus & they love it.
Side tracking a bit… try collecting plants from around the grow site, specifically growth tips & roots, mash it all up in a bucket of water & a couple oz’s if some mine sugar, let it sit for a week. Strain it & pour some of this “fertilizer” juice at the base of some plants you don’t mind testing- doesn’t even have to be weed.
Water it in unless you’re getting rain. If you see happier plants then Yessah free nutes 
The last time I grew in ground was 50/50 dirt & worm compost & was great.
Do you have access to any farm or ranch people nearby? That’s where I would start. Some fish & crab & seaweed should be available, right?
Just got some peat and cow manure today. Also have everything to do the coots. And also some top dress/tea nutes. A lot of farmers by me. Cow manure is super cheap tho. Transplanted some early veg plants into the soil I made two days ago and I must say there taking off.I’m going to try that weed fertilizer. Also been watering with locally sourced Neem meal and alfalfa pellets with kelp and that is awesome too. I’m starting to get the hang of things. I have everything for my grow rents too but never started yet. I think I’m going to try out a auto.sorry for messaging early. I thought maybe you would see it when you wake up. Never meant to wake you up. As I send this message I feel hesitant. Anyway apologies
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No worries- messages don’t wake me up - post any time.
Sounds like you got things going right.
The plants all around you should suggest they have most of what they need already. “Nobody ever fertilized a forest” 
Here on BI only a some places have soil & mine is super thin. When I was doing some clearing I realized “damn— how do these big Ohia trees get nutrients with such little soil?”
Mycorrhizae 
covering the roots. Aha! moment
Oh yup when I used to live in puna it was all lava rock and some black dirt by the ferns. I used to get mulch from the Hilo green waste and just compost it. Also there was a trucking company that sold a Mac nut mix. I’ve been growing with bottle nutes for a couple of season and I now remembered why it’s because of the pigs smh
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