I was flooding only twice a day in 4 inch cubes, and my lights were on 20 hours a day (running autos).
The reason I want to try coco/perlite though is that the cubes hold wayyyy too much water! Even the tiny 4 inchers were so heavy…
The problem with that is that I had a couple heavy drinkers. I had to flood or they will wilt and salt will build up etc., and meanwhile the rest of the plants are getting flooded way too often.
I wasn’t sure if this would matter, plants all looked fantastic… but now that I have harvested it clearly did matter. Only my heavy drinkers came out with nice dense buds, and everything else is super fluffy… Really not happy with the results… which is why I’m considering coco/perlite where I think I will have a larger margin for overwatering because even when it’s fully saturated the oxygen levels will be fine in the root zone.
There is probably something to the idea that rockwool keeps roots in the media though. In 2019 I did a flood and drain with 6 inch pargro cubes in a legit flood table (like you’re using) and not many roots got out. I didn’t have any additional air gap:
You can sorta see in this picture there were like 0 roots coming out. If I remember right, the couple in the back corners had SOME roots but nothing big.
I do think it might also be frequency of watering (like you might also be suggesting).
I have done some flood and drain with hydroton and was flooding like every 1-2 hours and roots were restless as heck…
Now that I’ve thought this through a bit more and typed all this out I’m wondering if I would have been better off using 4 inch pargro cubes as they hold less water I used the new improved grodan cubes, in which they have done some work on the surfactants they use so that the cubes hold more water. I figured in 4 inch cubes that would be fine, but damn… they really do hold a lot of water.
Ah okay, yeah now I remember why I decided to try coco/perlite this time instead of going back to the rockwool cubes I used before. I’d occasionally get damp off in the rockwool from them holding so much water for so long.
The frequency of watering will 100% affect how the roots grow out of, or lack thereof, whatever media you’re using. They will grow as far as they can stay wet and/or humid enough to stay alive.
So as you’re seeing, it’s trying to find that balance between watering enough or too much. The good thing with the 50/50 coco/perlite or more(perlite) is that you can’t really over water them. I also haven’t noticed any issues with any salt buildup. I’ve heard this a few times from others top-feeding coco or doing rockwool flood and drain but as long as I’m not burning them from overfeeding I don’t ever need to flush or anything and they always come out great. Provided they don’t herm
Wonder if that latter reason is due to the giant root mats I have, the majority aren’t stuck in a pot getting salt locked, they’re all in the table almost like a dwc
Yeah I 100% agree on all aspects there, and that’s what seems so appealing about it…
Salt buildup in the rockwool is real… My rez was at .8EC and I would weekly top feed the rez through the cubes to waste. The waste was sometimes 3.0 EC …
I think I remember asking you about this maybe 6 months ago lol… but you don’t ever have to top feed your coco plants to avoid buildup?
If everything else is great about the system I guess worst case scenario I guess just prune the roots before they tangle? Or just cut them out if you have to remove a plant?
I never once top feed any of my plants. Only when I put the seedling into the very first pot do I water from the top with tap water to get the coco damp. From that moment on until they get chopped, they all get bottom fed only. Even my mom’s are bottom fed only in trays, same strength nutes as my veg table, like 2EC. Some have been going for over a year in the same plastic pots and I’m not seeing any issues on any of them. All green as can be.
Mainly the latter. Lately if the plant I go to chop has a mat like that entwined with other plants, there’s no real way to separate them without damage. So I usually will chop the plant and leave the pot and mat for 3-5 days. At that point I can usually take out the majority of the mat without messing with anything else. But some gets leftover regardless.
Trimming roots would 100% be a major stressor and likely limit the growth of the plant so I don’t ever do that. The more roots there are then the bigger the plant will be.
PH 5.9-6.1 and should come out right around 2EC if my meters are accurate.
Flower gets the same thing sans the silica, but hotter, like 3-3.5ec. I know this seems high but it works just fine for most all of the plants i’ve ran. The ssdd likes it hotter, and ive ran into a couple that want it around 2.8-3.3. But 2ec will cause immediate fade and deficiencies. There’s been a few cultivars ive seen that want even more pk on top of this.
Seedlings and early veg I usually run around 1.2-1.5 EC.
I have done a few 12/12 from seed runs. It’s a lot of fun! The ones I have now got 2 weeks in a solo cup then transplanted to one gallon pots and flipped. Could your herm issues be in any way related to the 24/0 light regimen in veg? Keep rockin’ my man. I can’t wait to watch your 12/12 FS run. Way kool.
TK sounds great, anything that yields low but people are still going ape shit for several decades later that means something to me. Hope to grow that one out some day in the future if I cross paths.
I don’t think so. I had herms running 18/6 in veg too i think best fix would be gradually lowering the lights to 11/13 or going 12/12 from seed. Ive had some 5 footers doing that though, and its much harder to guage stretch and flower times. And take clones.
It could also be the shock to higher EC causing it. In both these cases though we’re talking 2-3 weeks before the plants herm. I’d think if it was truly either of those, they would herm immediately and not weeks later idk. I’m not really trying to fix the herm issue. I’d rather just see it and cull than not know at all. Goal is finding stable genetics above everything.
Why no silica in flower? I’ve heard no silica in flower before but there seems to be some disagreement on this. What say you sir? I use silica in flower.
Normally you’d use silica the first few weeks in flower to cover stretch, but you shouldn’t need it after that.
I did two or three runs in here using silica all the way through. Did the last and current runs without it. The smoke from the runs without silica are definitely smoother and burn better than the runs with it.
I’m cutting it out in flower completely only because of my setup. Perpetual where everything gets the same water/feed regardless of week they’re in so no way to do silica for just the first couple weeks. If I was individually top feeding or monocropping the table then I’d use through stretch and then stop.
Wow. You’ve done the comparative research for me. That’s one of the many things I love about OG. Knowledge and tried and true research are here for the pickin’.
Great system in here, thanks for sharing everything. I know I asked you about nutrients before because I remember we talked about the gypsum… I’m not all there this week, taken the last few days off work since I’m fevered out… BUT I am glad I asked again though because seeing all your EC targets and the specifics will be a big help on somewhere to start.
In small amounts of rockwool I would pretty much never go over 1.0 EC for fear of buildup leading to burn so I’ll have to get used to the numbers in coco.
I don’t have good luck with dry nutrients or I would try to copy your recipe exactly… Probably going to use GH trio since it’s old reliable for me… I know you’ve tried a number of 2 part liquid ferts including aqua flakes, but if I remember right the aqua flakes left plants a little leafy? I have had that happen and it sucks when it comes time to trim… I was also thinking about just using Canna Coco A+B start to finish with no additives except maybe CaliMagic if needed
The gh trio, Lucas formula should come out similar to this gypsum/maxi combo if my memory serves correctly
Both Canna and H&G were a bit N heavy for me. Things came out pretty leafy on both. Think that first run of the Godberry took me like 8hrs to trim
Since I switched over to gypsum+maxibloom my trim time has gone down dramatically. Was a bit higher running calmag/maxibloom from the added N in calmag, but yeah with the gypsum I’m down to like an hour or less on OG type stuff, and maybe 1-2hrs on the more Christmas tree, really branchy, stuff.
Yeah I’m not sure how familiar you are with algae but don’t mind the trays. Can spend an hour scrubbing that thing clean and it’ll look like that again in ~2 days. Joy of white tray with the lights on 24/7 and flooding every 2hrs… I’ve seen zero affect on ph/ppm levels from it.
Only way to not get algae like that would be to lower the flood timings to something like 4-6 hours between floods or cover the tray. I could get away with longer time between floods but the flood timing also changes how the roots grow. As-is I’m keeping it the same between veg and flower. I’ve thought about panda film or something else to cover the tray but haven’t come up with an easy simple solution that would let me take plants in and out.
All in all though, I’m not worried about it. Algae in the veg tray isn’t causing herms 3 weeks into flower and if it did, i’m glad those plants are gone anyways
Do the roots get exposed to light when they’re on? That might be a stressor.
I enjoy your work and hate giving advice where it’s unwanted. But then again I hate seeing a friend go through issues with herms and such. I know you’re against it but I’d work on dialing the environment so that everything can express itself in it true form. It would suck to get rid of something fire because it herms in an environment it doesn’t like.
Of course if you’re content because it works for you then that’s always better. I don’t do anything that doesn’t fit me or my schedule.
I used the new improved grodan cubes, in which they have done some work on the surfactants they use so that the cubes hold more water. I figured in 4 inch cubes that would be fine, but damn… they really do hold a lot of water.
i think best fix would be gradually lowering the lights to 11/13 or going 12/12 from seed. Ive had some 5 footers doing that though, and its much harder to guage stretch and flower times. And take clones.
