Impacting Terpenes through custom composting/soil amendments

I added an edit lol

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My brother did an excellent experiment with yeast and making cider. Everything would be the same e cept the yeast, he went through a dozen or so different yeasts and each one produced a unique cider. Some were dryer, some were fruiting, etc.

Iā€™ve heard it postulated that the RKS came from the use if bat guano, which isnā€™t used very much anymore.

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Well maybe skunk 1 reason I say that is Iā€™ve observed an increase in the sweet and sugary terps with the bat guano I think itā€™s because they eat insects which is full of chitan or maybe that was the shift to the sweet fruity skunk idk but Iā€™ll find out just takes time

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Iā€™ve embarked on such craziness

Am mixing sulfur into worm food and again after harvesting the casts.

No specific terpene Iā€™m after but just plain LOUD STANK

Last plant was very nice but no side by side comparison just the one

Try it :call_me_hand:

:evergreen_tree:

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Please keep this cordial.

If yall want to debate moonlight, phases, uptake, whatever, et al bring in some objective evidence or studies to back or refute the assertions / theories. Also, no need to berate anyone because they tried something.

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There is information out there, although solid, reliable specifics related to cannabis are few and far between.

Look into soil biology and itā€™s effects on secondary metabolites.

Chitin (and more specifically chitinase, the enzyme that breaks it down) plays a big roll and is well documented in use in other plants.

To point you further in the right direction, if this really interests you, you want to dig into the perfume and essential oil industries. You will have more success there than sorting through a bunch of anecdotes and bro science in more cannabis centric sources.

The speak about this here and there on Growing With Fishes podcast, Iā€™d like to revisit them so if I have some time soon Iā€™ll try to dig and find which episodes may talk about it.

In terms of steering the aroma, flavor, or cannabinoid ratios of the plants, I think environment and environmental pressures/stressors such as pests, temperature, humidity, and light spectrum and intensity play a large roll in how that all shakes out given the have a plentiful and diverse population of nutrients and microbes in the soil. Some of these things are inherently intertwined for naturally selecting which microbes thrive in your environment.

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Also, in terms of using a specific input to steer the flavors or aromas specifically to the direction of the input(eg gapes or grape compost for grape aroma/flavor)ā€¦ā€¦. I havenā€™t seen anybody able to repeat these results in a positive way in plants.

Here is an example of trying to repeat an anecdotal experience of this same idea

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/25/magazine/25food.t.html

Mostly unrelated side note, is possible to get egg yolks to come out a very brilliant rusty orange red by feeding the chickens lots of red peppers.

The agricultural work and play they do at Stone Barns is so fucking cool.

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There is also epigenetics to take into consideration like for instance I got this one cultivar that when I started using chitin I ok so I grew it out and got one terp profile and I revegged and got a way more complex terp profile with this heavy black pepper terp that was not there before and chitin is what was different I added in in the first grow by the time I revegged the soil aged and through epigenetics/ I think the black pepper was expressed idk Iā€™ll do more research but itā€™s looking very promising

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Unfortunately this is all going to remain as bro science if a mountain of variables arenā€™t removed from the equation. In that example alone, youā€™re talking about a different soil environment between the two flower cycles (even if itā€™s the same plant in the same pot), more time for mycorrhizal associations to form, increased nitrogen from the chitin application as it broke down, etc etc. Iā€™m not saying these things arenā€™t possible, but for a home grower to adequately account for all the variability is damn near impossible. Hell just trying to get the environment the same for every plant in a 5x5 space much less a greenhouse is a huge challenge.

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Thatā€™s definitely interesting, and yes chitin/chitinase being present will cause the plant to express differently and specifically increase secondary metabolites that the plant uses to defend it self from insect pests.

In this case, it isnā€™t the input that is necessarily causing the change directly, but a series of interactions that tell the plant danger is near by and it needs to up its defenses against a particular threat.

Be careful using the term epigenetic. There are many things that will cause a plant to express differently. Epigenetics are changes to the genetic material(DNA). These things are VERY far from equivalent. Even if environment is kept constant, the plant may express differently, doesnā€™t mean it has been changed genetically it could just be getting old.

Unless you are getting DNA tests done on the plants, or not at all able to get it to express how it used to by reverting to the exact same conditions it was in previously and giving it ample time to readjust, you probably shouldnā€™t even have epigenetics on your radar as there are many more likely explanations.

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Yes more research needs done and yes there are tons of factors even when it comes to the types of microbes and whatā€™s produced in that break down process I also use fulvic acid to help chelate and deliver things on a cellular level and alot is still theory but the research is promising most advanced techniques in or field of study still is theory even in the micro world all of science only Knows like 3% science just ainā€™t there yet still alot of work needs done and itā€™s so exciting ainā€™t it :slight_smile: just donā€™t let the haters stop you cus big ag doesnā€™t want us a to know and corner the market and change the plant idk my bad I donā€™t mean to rant js a free exchange of ideas and experiences is whatā€™s necessary :slight_smile: edit does want to lol

Loving the discourse here, there will always be people pointing and laughing at notions that are outside the norm - calling all pioneers to exchange information(including anecdotes), explore theories and share research to see what may come of it.

I have not yet conducted my own experiments with custom composts @drgreensleeves but thinking about doing an interesting case study for my next project ā€œOperation Frankincenseā€ā€” will need to allow for sufficient time for composted material to integrate into soil prior to proceeding. Once everything is situated I will report back with experimental parameters and observations. If there are any volunteers interested in collaborating, it would go a long way in increasing #s as I am constrained in my current circumstance.

Some scholarly cannabis research relating to cultivars and soil interaction below for anybody that is curious to dig deeper:

Soil Microbiota Influence 2021.pdf (1.2 MB)
found here > Understanding Cultivar-Specificity and Soil Determinants of the Cannabis Microbiome - PMC

Cultivar Specificiy and Soil Determinants.pdf (942.4 KB)
found here > https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4059704/pdf/pone.0099641.pdf

Modulating production of secondary metabolites 2020.pdf (880.7 KB)
found here > https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7143057/pdf/microorganisms-08-00355.pdf

I think weā€™re just scratching the surface hereā€¦

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Hell yeah thatā€™s what Iā€™m talking about, what Iā€™ve come to realize is the hippies were right they just didnā€™t know how to explain it lol

this book right here is definitely worth a read if anyone is interested this Rabbit whole goes very deep Iā€™m still traveling myself:)

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Thanks for the recommendation, gonna see if I can find the PDF version to explore further!

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Yes Stiener is the shit heā€™s from the 1920s when they first noticed the decline in quality of food crops caused by chemical/commercial ag Iā€™m still trying to come up with all the stuff for the inputs but I will soon I canā€™t wait

And if you need proof in the pudding look no further than Dragonfly earth medicine on IG edit they follow Stiener shit is amazing

ive heard of almonds being grown next to cannabis and the cannabis tasting like almonds.

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Thatā€™s cool Iā€™ve heard chamomile has an influence as well grown in same area but I havenā€™t tried it yet

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http://library.lol/main/DD5449DE05C3FEC82DC871453E0E1FDF

This should get you the epub version. If not just surf to libgen.is and search agriculture course under non-fiction. Itā€™s the only link

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