I don’t mean for this topic to come across in a way that would be comparable to horse and buggy times being better than todays modern vehicle technology.
I’m not qualified to genetically prove anything. I would simply like to express one angle of the camp I happen to be in. I’m not dogmatic in my beliefs and have changed my opinion on many topics through my life. I’m 51 years old and have been cultivating nonstop for more than 30 years.
I’m hoping to get some feed back from the community on this topic and look forward to hearing what your thoughts and opinions are…and lets have a bit of fun with the topic.
I will use one example to kick off the conversation.
Skunk #1 is known to be a cross of Afghani, Mexican, and Columbian. It’s arguably one of the 1st stabilized strains/hybrids. In essence, if you had 100 beans that came from Skunk #1 you could reliably obtain about 90% uniformity. More or less they would all be pretty much the same in quality, potency, look, size, growth rate, smell, and taste.
Where things get really interesting is that among the 100 beans you cultivated, one might be on the level of a Chem Dawg/Dawg (nomenclature aside) or a Mass Super Skunk. There are countless examples of beans from the 80’s and early 90’s that form the foundation for all hybrids we have come to love today.
The point I want to make is that these industry changing genetics can still be found, even from a lowly Skunk #1 bean. It takes luck, skill, and experience to identify such a plant but I believe “true” heirloom level Skunk #1 beans can produce industry changing genetics.
I suspect most cultivators would never waste their time popping countless Skunk #1 beans in the hopes of finding the Big Foot that’s riding a Unicorn at full gallup from the fire breathing dragon…my contention is that it can be done.
What we need to be looking for is that Bigfoot that’s riding a Unicorn at full tilt TOWARDS the fire breathing dragon. That’s the level of greatness I believe to be hidden away in the gems of the past, like Skunk 1, the various Northern Lights expressions, and even some of the shorter flowering Central American landrace cultivars. SE Asia and India are more than deserving of respect, and some amazing lines have been worked out of stuff from Vietnam/Thailand. But something about that Mexican sativa funk can’t be achieved by the stuff that came across the Pacific all those years ago.
Just my opinion. In no way am I knocking or putting down all the phenomenal genetics that were worked to IBLs from Afghanistan, Pakistan, or even some of the other 'stans further west. Nor am I preaching a sermon about how things were so much better back then. I love our modern stuff, truth be told.
I agree with the comments. I do believe that if 100 beans were popped that something special can be found. I know this to be true.
Finding something special from a Skunk #1 is just that…special. I only used Skunk #1 as an example to get this conversation started. I also know that something epic can be found as well, and I use epic to mean an entirely different level than special. I guess what I’m getting at is that there are LEGENDARY game changers to discover, even from a lowly Skunk #1. Yes, I use legendary to identify the true game changers, these are the ones that come around once in a lifetime.
I guess what stands out to me is that few growers would ever waste there time geno/pheno hunting with something like a Skunk #1.
Of course I’m only speaking to what my own experience in the cannabis world. I respect others opinions and think it’s a fascinating topic.
Finding legendary plants is a whole other level of hunting imo, specially is you want to keep it around…
I’d bet that legendary smoke is found monthly, only by the massive volume of seeds being germed.
One of the big problem in identifying exceptional keepers is dialing said plant. How many times did we collectively discard legends because we couldn’t grow that plant proper, and ended up with sub par smoke.
Some can take as many as 4 or 5 runs before shining.
Unfortunately, the trend now is hype names and fancy Instagram photos. Skunk #1 isn’t what people want. They want some candy name spelled with a ‘z’ instead of an ‘s’.
I love the older heirlooms, and spent the late 80’s through early 2010’s growing out literally thousands of seeds myself searching for something special within their lines. Now that we have had a small amount of decrim/legalization it feels like every noob and their fam is trying to get in the game by growing out all the heirlooms and mixing them with all the old played out seeds from the Dutch and European seedbanks that were long ago dismissed as watered-down, boo-boo, boofy, 2nd generation one-off seedlings from the highly valued American-bred phenos and acting like they are on the cutting edge of the breeding game . But those of us who have been around longer than 15 years have already tried most of those crosses and dismissed them long ago as not being very worthy of keeping The ones that were worth keeping are the ones that mysteriously emerged from the sands of time as keepers and which are still highly coveted today. I do not believe we can recover the old lines that were specifically bred for the traits we have been the recipients of, but if we dig hard enough we might be able to find a pheno that does reflect a little bit of that old world charm.
I agree, “finding legendary plants is a whole other level of hunting”!
I’m so fascinated by this topic and grateful to hear anyone chime in, thank you!
IMHO, I think it makes sense for younger cultivators to naturally gravitate towards the killer hybrids of today. If I were young cultivator I would certainly be seeking out these beans and popping the newest and best hybrids that todays market offers. This certainly holds true for old timers as well.
I also believe that the older generation of cultivators are far more likely to pop legendary strains from 30 years ago to obtain a true LEGEND. I also believe the gene pool is far deeper from a pool that only crosses 2,3, or 4 landraces. It’s just an opinion, I certainly feel there are many ways to obtain a legend.
I’m fortunate to work with a ring of cultivating wizards and we often talk about this topic. It strikes all of us at just how few people discuss the legendary geno/pheno that can be found in a Skunk #1. BTW, I’m only referencing Skunk #1 because it’s what I reference in the original post.
You summed it up perfectly when you wrote:
“What we need to be looking for is that Bigfoot that’s riding a Unicorn at full tilt TOWARDS the fire breathing dragon. That’s the level of greatness I believe to be hidden away in the gems of the past, like Skunk 1, the various Northern Lights expressions, and even some of the shorter flowering Central American landrace cultivars. SE Asia and India are more than deserving of respect, and some amazing lines have been worked out of stuff from Vietnam/Thailand. But something about that Mexican sativa funk can’t be achieved by the stuff that came across the Pacific all those years ago.”
Very well said and thank you for chiming in!
Cheers!
We gotta go back through the genetics I’m getting some landraces and taking my own path through the genetics because all the hybrids today are based off of only a few selections from back in the day ya know they Took the og, the sour d, the chem d , the skunk , ECT. But those are the basis of most of the “elite” so my theory is I just take some landraces and start working them I’ll have my own “staple” of genetics basically anyways I think I’m right
I’m excited for you to take this approach. It will unquestionably give you a massive gene pool and therefor give you the ability to reach far deeper than those running hybrids or hybrids of hybrids.
The tricky part is obtaining the best of each landrace. Let me put it this way, just because a Japanese person and an American person have have offspring…it certainly doesn’t guarantee that your offspring will be Naomi Osaka (she’s one of the greatest female tennis players in the world right now). This does however vastly increase the gene pool and the offspring will express amazing results that could never be found otherwise, along with some duds too.
I’m excited for your journey along this path, it will put you light years ahead of mainstream cultivators, in IMHO. In essence your building a vast library that you can pull information from at exactly the right moment to produce something LEGENDARY. It’s like building a house, you need knowledge on many fronts, carpentry, masonry, electrical, plumbing, HVAC…etc. The hybrids of today are like buying a prefab house but you’re building a custom built dream home with your approach.
At the end of the day it’s all so exciting and fun with many, many rabbit holes to go down and explore!
Tell people you’re growing a 16 week low yielding sativa and they’ll look at you like you’re crazy. It’s only interesting to a certain type of nerd perhaps like you or me.
I told a guy my weed has seeds in it and he said it must be shit. Different goals.
If people are only interested in the latest 55 day poly hybrid I’m not going to complain. To each their own.
You are not bound by their bias. What you want to grow is available. You just need to get it.
It’s still around it’s just not popular.
If I were growing commercially my position would be radically different.
@kabuddha Microbes, they say that the use/ partnership of microbes turns on / Activates epigenetics that you just can never reach other wise it’s a whole nother rabbit whole lol
I guess what I was poorly attempting to explain is that these legends can be found in things like Skunk #1 and many other crosses from the 80’s and 90’s.
I think you’re absolutely correct when you said “to each their own”. Some people will certainly run 16 week low yielding flowers and some are just interested in “the latest 55 day poly hybrid”
I agree with what you wrote. I was more or less expressing that these killer foundational game changers can certainly be found in the old school strains. The kind of mother and father plants that can change the industry.
I feel the same I’m just going a little farther back I think there is still a whole bunch of potential especially when you start to think about different expressions through epigenetics and the use of microbes with internet attempt to reach full genetic potential that is the goal , for example why or how they could go up to the old growth forest and get some just outstanding fn pot with only what they could carry on their back? Microbes
John kempf, some motioned him the other day he grows food crops but he has been doing priceless feild study’s t I mean amazing research you can find him on some podcast and stuff on YouTube
Edit: we were talking about full genetic potential and how to reach it , I get excited about this shit too , the quest for knowledge and the hunt of the pheno , I love this shit
Plenty of good old American genetics are still around they just get over shadowed by the sea of new hype strains and the circle of cannabis culture , people want what’s not common so it goes in circles , sours , purples, sweet fruity, gas, what ever becomes uncommon is what everybody starts to hunt for.
Go with some breeders that have old school lines that have been kept solid.
There is no skunky plants to be found in sams skunk1,
Now pre 90s skunk lines that come from other more reliable places are of great value.
. But those of us who have been around longer than 15 years have already tried most of those crosses and dismissed them long ago as not being very worthy of keeping 
The ones that were worth keeping are the ones that mysteriously emerged from the sands of time as keepers and which are still highly coveted today. I do not believe we can recover the old lines that were specifically bred for the traits we have been the recipients of, but if we dig hard enough we might be able to find a pheno that does reflect a little bit of that old world charm. 
