Limiting access to seed-runs, auctions & fundraisers

Community
#6

Seed runs: that’s entirely up to the persons directly involved with the seed runs.

The bulk have already been limited by the organizers. And, it’s easy enough to make your own personal rule if you’re doing your own seed run. The person doing the run (and if there are organizers) are capable of making that determination and are the ones that take on the burden of their decisions.

Auctions: entirely up to the admin and the auction sponsor (the person supplying the goods) to determine who can participate.

Why anyone believes a community vote is required to decide who should be allowed to bid in an auction boggles my mind. Beyond recognition, those sponsoring an auction don’t receive special privileges just because they’ve made a donation. The person supplying the goods, owns the goods. Ownership is transferred to the winning bid. The community doesn’t own it. I’m certain, the sponsor and the admin are entirely capable of determining who would be deserving to participate. New users or not.

Give-aways: same deal as the auctions. Take the Fluence fixture give-away earlier in the year as an example. It was specifically limited to TL1 or greater with the odds handicapped towards the more senior users. A community vote wasn’t necessary to determine who would be deserving. If that were limited to TL3 by dictate, well, the person donating the good could easily decide to back out entirely.

Bad actors are weeded out accordingly over time. Much of it experiential.

There’s a fine line between being inclusive and exclusive. OG’s base intent is heavily slanted towards being inclusive. No one user can determine whether a new user is going to be a contributing community member or not until there is actionable history.

Private or community group driven efforts (e.g. the organized seed runs) are capable of determine their own rules as long as they aren’t purposefully being exclusionary towards classes of individuals (such as race, gender, etc)).

If there is a burden on the moderation and the community as a whole, we can make those decisions once the issue become apparent.

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#7

That should be clear for you if you have been reading this thread, it is a question of trusting people or not, which has made people not continuing biding, inflating the bids artificially or the risk to disappear after winning the auction …

I was referring to those “supported” by OG and being distributed, the CO-OP I think they are named, should have been more precise on this …

I think we’ve got an evident problem with all regarding sponsorship, giveaways and such. Valuable members have quitted or being banned because of a perception on how OG is now monetary oriented.

More users => Bigger server needed => More adds and sponsors

I sincerely think we are going in the wrong way, we will lose the “family” feeling and old Ogers will be swallowed by this bunch of newcomers.

As long as many of us monthly contribute we should have a way to express our thoughts and considerations and participate on how this forum is evolving, of course having the admin the last word … :sunglasses:

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#8

Or, someone’s upset because they’ve been outbid by a new user. IDK. As noted, the goods in the auction are not in anyways owned by the community or OG. Through the good heart of the sponsor, they’ve agree’d to donate any proceeds to the community.

The shill angle has been addressed and is mostly supposition. Don’t bid if it’s a concern or wait for the auction which only targets TL2 or above.

They’ve already been limited with the organizers specifically asking for feedback from the community as a whole. You need to clarify this point. This is not run by OG, it’s a community group lead project.

Unfortunately those who quit can make that decision on their own. For those that are “banned”, this does not occur lightly and there is always a “paper” trail of behavior leading to such action.

The lights in this place do cost money to operate. Adding features and improvements cost money. Allowing the storage a high resolution images cost money. If everyone in the community were able to contribute, then there may be a way to avoid site sponsors (which are constrained anyways) and the ad banner (which is in no way obtrusive).

I don’t find the “money” oriented feel here at all. The majority of the forum activities revolves around the sharing of information, free trade, and giving. A few folk seem to be up in arms because they’ve been outbid in an auction and would rather entertain more exclusivity.

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#9

How much does it cost to run a server per year.
What’s that been a year and there’s been how many more server fund benefits have there been since, 3.

I have no idea that’s why I’m asking @LemonadeJoe are you getting enough so there’s no money out of pocket for you?

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#10

It is hard to read and understand your dense English for a Spaniard, but I think I understood the OP of seed runs and auctions are the one to choose the rules on how they are managed.

I make a proposal, creating a Seed run & auctions hidden category, just as the Private lounge, so anyone just wanting to share with dedicated members could directly post there and avoid seed hunters and hit & go new members, looks reasonable at least for me … :sunglasses:

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#11

Yes, I’m sorry. I do tend to pack in as much as possible in the wording.

Can you put this into the feature’s request or reach out to the seed run organizers.

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#12

As someone who’s sent out a seed or two, I am perfectly okay with hit and go members. They all pay their dues, they’re not begging. The bar appears to be too high for one person to be running multiple accounts, and other than that, I want as many people as possible to put their hand out.

I used to buy from the single seed centre, and every single seed was worth more than gold. I fucking hated it. Lol.

To the extent that we don’t strain our logistics, I’d like as many people as possible to have a chance to grow something spectacular.

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#13

I would prefer to start a thread in the Private lounge, so the only ones that would be affected by that decision may expose their thoughts about this prior to ask it as a request … :sunglasses:

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#14

Then you can still post your threads “in open”, I appreciate what people like you or Sebring are doing, just don’t like to feed the strangers and attire unwanted attention. Both points of view can coexist, just let people an option to decide between them … :sunglasses:

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#15

You should start a preservation run @George I’ve got a few things I could offer you and it might change your perspective. Nothing like a few thousand spare seeds to make one want to share.

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#16

I am pretty far for having the knowledge to make seeds. I am starting to understand the plants but far away from being able to breed.

I am worried about the site, not the seeds. I could make a list of people already missing because of sponsoring or latest monetizing drift of this forum, it is beginning to be long enough so to be worried about.

Thanks for your offer but we are speaking about philosophy, I have already shared with people I know and appreciate and also being gifted by them. I will give back to the community when ready, but not anyone just passing by to get free seeds … :sunglasses:

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#17

I’m not worried about the site. It’ll be here well into the future.

There have been some that would rather increase the exclusivity with discourse brought to a private conclusion. OG already has the private lounge to cater to senior TLs, PMs, etc along with the aforementioned ability to limit participation on the seed runs, etc.

But, OG is not really tuned to present itself as a private members forum rather that would be somewhat contrary to the charter. There are places out there that will cater to that but that is not the overriding goal here.

The admin does listen and we do help to entertain ideas that may include some limited access areas and events but the bulk of the discourse is intended to be freely accessible to the community at large.

Perhaps some of the folk that have left for other places because ‘sponsors’ or ‘monetization’ could also provide guidance on how to hook into such groups. I don’t have such information myself but also don’t really seek it out.

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#18

Dude there’s a million teenagers with kids and at least as many shitty breeders that can tell you, knowledge is not a prerequisite. You just have to learn the plants you’re growing and kill the weak.
Do you have an active journal @George I have trouble keeping track of everyones journals anymore. lol

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#19

Many times it’s hard to me to explain something in English, I am worried about the spirit of the site, not the site itself. I think we are beginning to lose what it makes us different from other forums: feeling like a family, knowing each other, helping and contributing without expecting nothing, no ads or sponsoring, no quarrels and discussions between members …

I come here not only to learn how to grow but also to meet my “virtual” friends and make a laugh with them. If many of them are quitting the site because of the drift it lately has and I think the same as them I know what will be my final destiny … :roll_eyes:

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#20

I agree that the spirit and unity of the site is an amazing aspect that makes OG an amazing place.

It is not the moderators or any one person that makes this a great place to be. It is the community as a whole acting together. But one aspect is the accepting nature and the willingness of everyone to allow others into the fold by remaining humble and patient.

We have had some high energy members and great contributors that on occasion lose sight of this and have started conflicts on even the smallest of slights. It does occur and it is natural. We have also had some new members acting like block heads. This occurs and is also expected. The community does need to at least help mold the conversation, be accepting and patient, and allow some time for integration.

Although, there have be campaigns started as some individuals feel they need to interject a vision onto others. Sometimes it’s deserved but sometimes it is not. Making it into an on-going campaign is not about building a community. Instead, it is about that single individual.

OG has never been about one person, cliques, or exclusivity. It is about community. There is nothing that is preventing the family feel, the knowing of each other, helping or contributing. Working together with diverse values and ideals is not always easy but at the same it can be easy. Patience. Be humble.

It is up to the community to help avoid and deescalate the conflict rather than actively escalating them. Communicate with the moderation team, be patient, be humble. The bad actors will be asked to leave in due time but it not necessarily immediate. There is a learning curve and history to be considered. Patience, be humble.

The ads and sponsors have been discussed. It is an unfortunate necessity to pay the bills. There would not be an OG otherwise and the community could not grow.

edit: There are going to be growing pains. I lose my patience from time to time as well. We all should try to do our best. I do believe we have one of the best communities on the net. I’d also point out I’m making generalizations and not specifically referring to this OP.

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#21

I humbly disagree with this, just take a look of the leader’s list and you will see the vertebral column of this site, even if they are not all that they should be. Thanks to their commitment, sense of humour, help and knowledge this site goes on and is an enjoyable reading.

If our oldest and most reputated members slowly disappear this site would not vanish, but wouldn’t be the OG we all know.

I have a Seedbox with 1 terabyte space and unlimited traffic, I pay just 10 € per month, I don’t see why all that amount of money needed.

I haven’t seen any discussion about ads, that is a subject that interests me and never seen such thread. This was the spirit of this site:

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I feel free to stop my contribution as this statement was broken and there are ads already. If you can kindly point me where that adds discussion took place I would appreciate it …

I don’t see a good point in that, the only reason to look for it would be “Hey sponsors, we have 100.000 daily visitors, pay me more as I need bigger disk space and more traffic”. So it creates a problem instead of solving it.

The OP of this thread is LJ :upside_down_face:, I cannot remember who was it before being splitted. There are no personal remarks on this, even being this discussion in the Shark tank. I think these questions affect the whole forum and need to be explained and discussed, that’s all … :sunglasses:

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#22

I’m not entirely certain but I’ll disagree with the disagreement. The whole of the community contributes to the whole of OG. It is an expectation when joining as an individual to contribute to the community as it stands. Singular persons, cliques, and groups of individuals certainly have a strong voice in what that might look like but, taken alone, it does not comprise the whole of the community.

Leaders and moderators help in many ways to ensure productive discourse. A leader, unlike a manager, relies on those around them to do the right things and will encourage that. They will endeavor to make course corrections as necessary. They rely on the community to make choices that further OG, they set the tone, help to resolve conflicts, and help to bring OG forward and into the future. In most cases, they don’t have to be involved with everything.

Though, people do and will leave. That includes those in the leadership / senior roles. While few desire to see that occur, such roles are entirely voluntary without compensation. They do not receive unbounded accolades and appreciation. Much of their time is spent dealing with angst which is a reason why they heavily rely on the community to do the right thing.

Like anyone, senior members and leaders will get tired, have other interests, have a families and work, or decide to take on other ambitions. It is not unexpected for this to occur but it’s also safe bet that other trusted members on the forum can eventually pick up the torch when and if such a sad day arrives.

At $10 a month that sounds like an opportunity to stand up an example. I’ll suggest that it won’t take long to realize it will not be a scale-able solution, it’ll have minimal storage capacity, and there will likely be significant performance issues.

The suggested solution seems to be a limited member / private site more or less devoid of growth. It’s a workable model but it is not OG. Likewise, with more members there is theoretically more folk that are able to contribute, scaling.

The why was covered. Though, feel free to PM the admin (LJ) on that concern.

The OP was split from the complaint about the GA3 on the now defunct auction.

I feel a bit as though we are starting to cover the same ground and I’m now just soap boxing this stuff. While your thoughts and ideas are valuable, I’m not really changing my line of reasoning. Ultimately, some of these issues are really not my decision to make in the end anyhow.

All I can offer at this point is that you bring your thoughts and concerns up in the request for features, to TeamOG via pm, and LJ and we’ll do our best to address your concerns and consider whether there is a common solution.

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#23

I think our point of views are now clear, even if we disagree in some concerns I appreciate your time taken to enlighten this matter.

I won’t request anything as there’s no way to stop the drift this forum has taken and hope for the best that my predictions are wrong, only time will tell … :sunglasses:

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#24

Thanks @Northern_Loki I wouldn’t say it better. I’ve mentioned many discussed bits already in different topics in the past and you have summarised it excellently. Nothing have changed about my vision of open forum and I hope that there is still majority of users who see this approach like OG’s advantage. It is just the scale that has its challenges.

All auction proceedings since February have single purpose - hardware upgrade.

Our traffic has doubled in past year (and so did activity in the forums - number of actively contributing members and posts). During preparation for our latest (software) platform upgrade in February, I’ve been going through all aspects of our software needs, solved most urgent pains and identified our server bottlenecks (currently mostly lack of disk space and CPU cores). Sometimes even you can notice that there is few seconds delay when server is too busy serving high load requests (e.g. uploads, full text search) from other members. That is not pleasant and could affect our performance and in the end user experience. People actually do quit using sites because they are slow to load.

I’m trying to work with the statistics from the history and predict future needs and always try to include safety margins (to have some reserve if possible). From what I’ve been able to asses (and also after debates with my fellow server admin colleagues), I came to conclusion we need something like this Cisco UCS C220 M3. This one in used condition is available for approximately 2750 USD. It needs to be upgraded with new hard-disks and NVMe drive. Expected budget is around 4-5k USD.

It would be great to upgrade this year. I’ve tried to negotiate fundraiser auctions with donators and goal to buy new hardware.

ad Seedbox. I understand that from your user point of view it may seem like valid comparison. But your seedbox can serve only one purpose - seeding torrents. Our (future) Cisco server could run dozens of seedboxes like yours. OG’s situation is not comparable to a position of seedbox “user” but more to a provider of seedbox services. I have needs similar to the company that runs those seedboxes for customers like you.

We have grown to the size that it would be extremely impractical to run OG by depending on external services (virtual servers) instead of our own bare metal. Most importantly because of costs and security.

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#25

I think this information is valuable and should be seen by the community so they could express their thoughts and doubts. The Shark Tank is not visited by many people and this kind of info will enlighten many doubts and mistrusts that people may have … :sunglasses:

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