Exactly. Besides, it would require a paradigm shift in thought that has to occur simultaneously in enough people, positioned people, for the resources to be redirected. Good luck with that.
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Yeah. I’m floored at the $$$$$$ thrown at getting rich people into space vs using it to FIX THIS SPINNING ROCK.
I hear ya. But this term I use to help them connect the dots.
This is why I work with bone. 
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There’s nothing unnatural about the rock. It’s ourselves that need fixing. If we all disappeared today, it would heal itself fairly quickly.
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I can’t find a piece bigger than my fist anywhere. A whole nodule is a pipe dream. 
always wanted to do a big tool.
And if primitive means arising from the mind through the hands directly to the material at hand that’s what we do best. That and color vision are why we’re even having a conversation.
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Microliths is where its at
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I wanna say there were Columbian mammoth throughout central america, and they didn’t disappear too long ago either (in the grand scheme of things). But it certainly wasn’t modern society that killed them off. The last 500 years did more damage than the previous 10,000 for sure. And they’ve been extinct 11,000 yrs +.
Still interesting that there are carvings and sculptures of them in Mayan culture, considering the Mayan culture barely began some 4,000 years ago. I could understand skulls and tusks, but they also depict trunks, which aren’t really going to be preserved should they have happened to uncover a skeleton. Really makes you wonder how they knew an elephant / mammoth had a trunk when the evidence they would be finding would be absent of one if it was dead for 6,000 years already when the Mayan civilization was beginning…
Were there mammoths still around 6,000 years after we thought them extinct?
Is our dating flawed and these carvings are more than 10,000 years old?
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No, the dating is actually one of the most rigid parts of our understanding.
And can we see some of these elephants? First i have ever heard of a mayan depiction
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I think this is one of them:
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From Chichen Itza
And a childs toy from an Olmec tomb
There are relief carvings I saw as well, but can’t find a photo of them…
There’s a little info here:
Mayan elephants - History Forum ~ All Empires
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The first picture are carvings of the rain god Chac those are masks.
Gotta see more about the 2nd
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I think perhaps the most important thing missing in peoples’ thoughts about these things is the degree of connectivity between cultures. Assuming they were in total isolation their entire existence is quite an assumption. Elephants require a sort of diet that probably existed then there. Even if they didn’t they could have been seen elsewhere.
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Wild claims require wild proof
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@Foreigner is an expert at this.
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I agree with the sentiment. Proof is proof though, as rigid for what we believe as what we don’t. Something either is or is not, was or was not is often not provable.
I may play devil’s advocate a lot but it’s just to offer other ways of thinking about things. The thinking is what’s most valuable I think. It’s not my place or even desire to change opinions, only loosen intellectual bindings.
I absolutely believe we have worse than no clue about these things. We are fundamentally restricted in our understanding by our biology. It’s almost impossible for us to grasp the world as anything other than a monkey. What worked for us evolutionarily has overtaken us and will collapse again like an ant hill after the food is exhausted.
If I put up an obstacle to someone’s theory I’m just as delighted as they are when they overcome it.
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Idk what youre saying exactly. Proof is proof. When you have 2 theories and no one has been shown to be correct, you look at the bodies of evidence, which are based off prior proof and builds and builds.
On the other hand, you have a theory that stands alone and points to singular pieces of evidence which are not clearly understood and only looks to dismantle the other theory, while never gaining more tha a basic platform to stand on
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It’s true you know 
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*In the beginner’s mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert’s there are few."
Shunryu Suzuki Roshi
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I was talking about standards of evidence, albeit poorly. The conversation is more important than the substance to me here. I find it fascinating the theories minds produce. Very creative thought.
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1-s2.0-S0305440396900102-main(1).pdf (359.9 KB)
Here is a brief breakdown of how dating in archaeology works. its not too complex and is very informative.
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Believe it or not we’re similarly aligned. I understand what theories are and what proof is.
On this thread I suspend my disbelief to hear what folks have to say unaffected by any animus they might think I bring with me. Sorta think that’s the point.
I could cite scientific refutations of almost anything if I look hard enough.
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