Old NL clone looks to be dying off… need help to try and save!

[man-bot]

I have a friend who is not on the forums who needs some help with an old NL clone he has kept for a long time. Things are looking grim and we can’t seem to determine what’s up. His message:

Greetings. I’m hoping to get some help from the group to save a couple ailing plants, please. These plants are the end of the line for a cutting that I’ve been growing successfully and lovingly for 15 years. I would be heartbroken to lose her. Northern Lights. They were taken from a seemingly healthy mother at the end of September (she went into flower and produced well) along with 12 other clones.

Stimroot powder and rockwool. They took 4 weeks to root, which is abnormally long for me, and were put into small pots in Promix HP. Some didn’t root at all, and some died after being potted. Those that survived got just water, initially, and then were fed at 1000 ppm and a pH of 5.5-6.5 (I vary pH up and down with each watering). The grew very slowly.

After a month, the new growth stunted, yellowed, and sort of bunched up. I flushed to find run-off of 2200 ppm/4.5 pH, so flushed further to 500/6.0. Gave them just pH’d water for one watering, then resumed feeding as above. They seemed ok for a few weeks, and pushed through some new growth, but in early January, they slowed again. I found the run-off to be 2000/5.5. I flushed again, and they’ve been going downhill ever since. I up-potted them a week ago. Just pH’d water. The roots were underdeveloped but white (ish?). They continue to look worse, as you can see.

The water comes from a nearby natural spring which I’ve been using for a decade. That entire time, it has always been ~350 ppm/7.0 pH. Food is a one-part 7-4-10 formula, and I add Cal-Mg. [General Hydroponics FloraNova Grow, if brands are ok to post] They are under fluoros - T5s initially, but I moved them under T12s a couple weeks ago. Being a basement grow in the winter, temps are low, 65-70°F, 10-15% RH. Not ideal, but that’s how it’s been for a decade, so not the issue, but likely not helping. I’ve raised the temp in the room to 80°F for the last couple weeks. I’ve also had thrips the last few years. Never really noticed enough damage to bother dealing with them. I usually have a lot of plants! I did finally spray with Spinosad last week.

I’ve saved many plants from ill-health over the years, but I’m at a loss here. I really don’t understand what the issue is. Any thoughts or experience that you can offer would be greatly appreciated…

Any thoughts on the issue or how to save this heirloom plant?

[firehead]

My first thought is the %RH.
During winter, I get a lot of weird symptoms and unhealthy plants from the RH being so low. It can really mess with the plants ability to uptake nutrients and function normally (check discussions about VPD and it’s effect on plants)

I’d try to get that plant under a dome and get the RH up around 60% and see if it helps.

[George]

I would think about white root rot, they don’t look healthy and leaves look like the symptoms described here …

https://agriculture.vic.gov.au/biosecurity/plant-diseases/fruit-and-nut-diseases/white-root-rot#:~:text=Symptoms%20of%20white%20root%20rot,-The%20following%20symptoms&text=As%20the%20disease%20progresses%2C%20the,Infected%20trees%20will%20eventually%20die.

[Exclusive]

That was my first thought was the rot due the look of the leaves or even lack of root growth. Something isn’t right. I think it may cutting back on feeding or water. The yellowing of the leaves looks like being saturated soil

[ShiskaberrySavior]

Take some fresh clones possibly light feedings and steady ph see if that helps.

[greenbeans506]

If they are using water from a natural spring, Im going to throw out a different possibility- maybe they have picked up some root feeding nematodes from that spring… only way to know for sure is to put the soil under a microscope and check for nematodes, then look at their mouthparts do figure out if its rootfeeder or other non-harmful classification.

[Star_Dog]

I would use a couple of the best shoots for cloning before it goes beyond it.

Good luck, it would sad to loose it now.

[Rocket]

It looks like a thrip problem. Check under the leaves for bugs.

[SkunkHunt101]

I agree, pull some cuttings and try to get them to root. I would just use regular dirt and water for the mother.

[Radicle_Reefer]

Dang, would be a heart break to lose her! I would spray her with some citric acid type product on the plant and soil. If you have a sunny day and can get her to a window to catch some natural light, that can help revive old cuts. Also, I’ve heard people express that amber fulvic as a foliar spray can help revitalize a cut. Good luck hoping for the best!!!

[Yetigrows]

Something is in the soil/root area driving the PH down pretty hard.

I’d agree with the idea of nematodes or some other pest in the medium as the culprit.

[man-bot]

OP’s friend replying from OP’s account.

Thanks very, very much for the responses, folks! Much appreciated. A few follow ups…

Cloning. I thought of this, as well, but would you expect to get a viable clone from such an unhealthy plant? There are only a couple shoots that could even be considered as a clone, and even those are questionable - maybe 1/16" diameter, and fairly woody. And the plant that would be left behind would have very little left in the way of decent growth tips. So, if the clones don’t root… I’ve always been good at getting clones to root, but I would appreciate any suggestions to ensure best results.

Nematodes. Very interesting. I misspoke in my original post. I’ve only been using that spring water for about 5 years, and all the while, I’ve had strange unexplained deficiencies that I’ve struggled to manage with nutrients. That water has always been a bit suspect. But I live on a well with very hard water and a softener, neither of which are suitable for the girls, so it’s been the better option against bottled water or RO from a local supplier. I’ll also mention that I have other plants here of different strains that have received the same treatment (soil, water, environment), and they’re doing fine after some initial, similar behaviour. Could my girl just be getting weak in her old age?

I have a handheld 30x microscope. I gather from the interwebs that this will be suitable for seeing the nematodes? Should I break up the root ball to extract some of the soil and look at it dry, or mix it with some water? FYI, I’ve checked the spring water that I currently have on hand and don’t see anything. Just some little floaties that don’t look alive.

I will get some of the suggested citric acid and fulvic acid products and give them a try.

There is no further evidence of thrips since I sprayed the spinosad last week.

I’ll get the plants into a dome to jack up the RH.

I’ll also educate myself on the white root rot. That sounds like a death sentence!

[WeTokeChronic]

Try to add some silica. Get those cell walls stronger

[George]

I hope I’m wrong but watching the overall look of the clone makes me think it has problems with nutrients intake product of some unhealthy roots. Perhaps you should trim the ugly looking leaves, they’re stealing energy to the plant instead of producing it and may attire pests or diseases, I agree on not taking cuts, much luck with it …

[Star_Dog]

I had a plant go downhill noticeably between leaving in the morning and getting home at night.

I’ve never had root rot but from what I’d picked up that seemed most likely so I pulled it out of the pot.

Hmm, it looks fine?
I knew it’s time was limited the life was draining out of it so I cut the 3 best shoots.

A couple of weeks later it’s back!

I think in the case of the op insects is more likely, thrips ime are a frickin nightmare they f*k up your plants and they’re difficult to iradicate you need something that can kill the egg, larvae and adults or you need to treat frequently enough to break that cycle.

Good luck.

[Mrgreenthumb]

Is it possible that this plant contracted hplvd? It looks like it has many problems, and being the owner has grown this for so long I would assume he knows how to take care of it

[GregOG]

Get a white bucket. Bigger than the plant, spray the inside of the bucket with plain water…

Throw saran wrap on top the bucket, wet the plastic a bit by spraying a mist at the end.

Set plant inside the bucket without spraying the plant, never spray plants.

Cover top tightly with saran wrap , use a rubber band to secure it.

Set away from grow light, against the wall in the veg room. It will recover in hours.

[Wuachuma]

Reclone without powder but instead aloe. Clone into peat, not rockwool.
You could also replant the mom into probiotic soil. Ive rejuvenated old cuts (UK Cheese, Gooey Mom) in probiotic soil. Kevin and Alan have rejuvenated plants by putting them in soil with probiotic soil

[greenbeans506]

@man-bot

@man-bot

I’ll also mention that I have other plants here of different strains that have received the same treatment (soil, water, environment)

If root feeding nematodes is the culprit its possible that you just happened to pick up a couple, ended up in the pot and multiplied. I doubt that the spring has lots of root feeders in it becuase that wouldn’t really be their ideal habitat.

Spring water is definitely an awesome source, you would also be picking up a good amount of beneficial microbes (whether they survive in the pots is another thing)

Nematodes would need a higher power microscope to tell what type it is (root feeder or other non harmful) might be able to see them moving with the 30x. It’s unlikely that you would find any in a small sample of spring water.

Cutting new clones would be the obvious fix but like you said, wouldn’t want the clones to not take, then have no healthy growth on the mother.

I can take a look at the soil under the scope of you want to send a sample.

There’s some solutions you could use of its nematodes (safers soap would be one) but I wouldn’t want you to do that without confirming the nematodes. Could just create more problems

[CruJones]

I’d be scoping the back side of those leaves looking for pests. Check root tips with the scope. Really spend some time looking it over with the scope. I agree on trying to get environment better in terms of RH. Plants already stressed so try to make it easier on her to recover.

Id try to understand the cause of the issue before cloning. If it’s a pest and he clones without resolving that he’ll be right back here.

I’m really rooting for your friend and hope he’s able to save the plant.