You will produce seeds that way yes, those are called F1. P1 = Parent 1, P2 = Parent 2.
P1 x P2 = F1.
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Nice Brooother i will read more about that crosses between seeds unfortunately im not a grower for prosefion but i do my best for get the best knowladge about that
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Anda al hilo de espanyol si te cuesta explicarte en ingles… Me extranya.
Go to the Spanish thread if explaining yourself in English is hard. No worries.
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That would not make F1 seeds. That would be interbreeding poly hybrids wich gives you tons of genetic variation. To make an f1 you need unrelated parents. Recreating that strain from those seeds would take tons of work. Or incredible luck.
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There are also Polys that breed true ya just have to experiment for a few decades.
Sub
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Not quite true as we need to compare result to original parent that breeder used.
Exactly… Technically speaking you are crossing
F1 x F1 = F2
so the result is F2 which has way higher variation (unless you are already working with “true breeding” (IBL) strains as @Subcool suggests, but that is highly unlikely).
@hempmex you can read a lot about it in GrowFAQ, for example:
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Thanls for show me the way about this pretty platform, im looking for information but it will be dificutl to get it.
You can go from GrowFAQ homepage, or search in FAQ archive by adding in:faq to your search query (for example search for “f2” in FAQ)
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That’s how we do it since centuries.
An OG Kush F2 line.
Do the both.
In a first time you can do a “one shot hybrid” without selection : the F1 female on your five pack x the male landrace that you aim.
Then you can increase the quality of this cross later, in selecting again a new/better female in your own OG Kush F2 line. 5 seeds only don’t permit to have a good margin in term of quality and opportunity. The bonus is that you will known how to react the landrace allready, and refine the selection of the F2 female in this way.
have fun
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No, tico, no es tan fácil, como @Pjhunt78 bien apunta: para que se cumplirá la cita de @GrowerGoneWild los P1 y P2 deben ser Landraces puras hechas heirlooms o híbridos modernos hechos IBLs … Y cuanto menos emparentados entre ellos mejor.
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Well, it would really make “F1 seeds from his P1 x P2 cross”, but withoth Mendelian hybrid vigor n without Mendelian F1 " homogeneidad/estabilidad"…
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How could a poly breed true? And how are you defining true breeding?
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brother im not sure, they are F1 the seeds are only regular seeds from Rollex Og Kush to Devil Harvest Seeds, i will to poly Males x Females, what do you see brother, mi carnal huerote.
@RarePheno is simply hardest for my i will try with Breeder Grow Bible and it looks so lovely but is a lot of information to read i going slow but i dont stop to read that book.
Mi currentlu estatus is this one but all the harvest has seeds into theyr flowers
@MiG THANKS BROTHER i will try with Afghan Kush 100% Indica x Jarrilla Sinaloense 100% Sativa, that will be my frist Cross
i hope will be
Afgan Male x Jarrilla Sinaloense Female
then
Jarilla Male x Afgan Female
i think this will be direrent reaction cross.
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Jarilla de Sinaloa is alsow called Cola Borrego Sinaolense…
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at what generation do you loose the majority of variance you gain with the F2 Generation?
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@MiG Nice Budy Cola de Borrego Sinaloense is Better name than Jarrilla
@whadop i dont have idea, i have seeds provenience from
Kritical Mass Regular Male cross Kritical Mass Feminized
and other Cross
Kritical Mass Regular Male cross Amnezia Mass Femized, i understand that this seeds has tons of varietys just for that reazon i will to know more about Breedering Seeds i love it to much
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I will be harsh but it’s with a big love. Because it’s a fckng good type of question that i want to see again everywhere. high5 whadop.
- Each time that you read an absolute rule about cannabis breeding, it’s simply BS. No matter from where it come. Life is not an algorythm or an equation with a single unknown factor. When you start to produce seeds and to use them, you quickly understand that the life is a flow and not an arithmetic operation like computers.
So, to all “marketing-destroyed” people that allready feel that something is weird when practice come :
- all males must be [put anything you want inside] : BS
- a good female is [put anything you want inside] : BS
- all F2 have the same variations : BS
- a F1 in heterosis is homogenous and stable by default : BS
- all early specimens are [put anything you want inside] : BS
- all late specimens are [put anything you want inside] : BS
- …
I will tell you the truth right now. In industry, with dead materials, absolutism is able to exist. If you warm a titanium nail, you will always get titanium oxyde. If you use a titanium coil to vape, you will get oxyde. If you burn a car with titanium “skeleton”, you will get oxyde.
With life it can’t be absolute or there will be no life anywhere. Simply. The chaos is the life and vice versa. And when you’re a “wannabe”, it’s the first thing to digest, accept and deal with. I call it “entering in the flow” in a place where Jah don’t planned you. When you start, to study taoism is maybe more usefull that any tutorial around.
I will add that to known yourself and to respect your inner fate to be specialized in a certain type of “footprint” in breeding is the biggest battle that you will have to win during years of practice. Because until you do this inside job, you will just suffer and bleed. There is no easy way : BS.
The bad new is that you can’t avoid it, to reach the peace and to known how to swim without losing all your energy within 3 meters. You have to virtually die a fews times in breeding to lose your human nature, then start to be a part of this flow. Swim and you will die. Get a boat and Jah will destroy it. Expect and you will only get disappointment. The life that is in front of you have a big picture. If you’re able to read the story of this big picture to include yourself inside, you will quickly get decent results, even if you’re breeding in an half sqm in MIR station or in the worst condition that you’re able to imagine. Life care only about life. A dead equation have no chance to get results, an alive breeder have all his chance. There is no maths outside the statistics of your specimens and theyr average.
And fck, one time for good, talent in breeding is just someone that have understanded himself. All successfull breeders that i’ve encounter in my life have a single common point : theyr methods work only in theyr hands. You can take a blank newbie that you form to your methods during twos intensive years, he will be dependent on you for life and will be unable to drive his own projects. And in fact that’s the worst gift that you can share with a wannabe, because it’s just a trap. He will never swim in your flow, no matter how hard you try and how many sacrifices you do. That’s the beauty of the paradox of life, you’re totally free to deal with you genetic fate. Just like your specimens.
Extend this reflex to any fake “rule” that is supposed to be applyed to everything the same way. Always think twice by the extrems when you read something that present you the life as a protocol.
Are you seriously think, with all your soul, that you will have to deal the same way a F2 of twos landraces, a F2 of twos 3way, a F2 of a commercial strain ?
Off course not, and you’re all allready known it in your fiber in fact. Because yourself, you’re a F1 in another flow bred by a selection.
That’s the philosophy, to deal with a chaos not with rules that trap you but with tools that permit you to adapt faster and stronger each time that you use them.
- Breeding tools are breeding tools. Not rules, not god laws and not the keys to an easy success. But it exist a gold rule on tools : the more you have tools, the more you can adapt to each situation.
A couple of decades have proved that artificial ones only produce shit on long term, “wannabe lazzy monsanto geneticians” will cry loud about that because i hit theyr shortcut. I don’t blame the use of thyosulfate, CS, GA3 … they are tools. I blame the lazzy idiots that don’t feel responsible about what they throw outside theyr lab or not, like uneducated childrens that discover fire. So i will not arg so much on it, facts are here to play the polemic without me.
And yes, i use chems and alt methods sometimes when i need it to decypher a genetic pattern. But not to produce shit faster than light and to explain to fresh growers that it is a method of breeding itself.
But i extend the principle to real breeding tools. I’m mad each time that people write critics on them. Breeder X is bad because he use only the tool Y, Breeder A is my god because he use only the tool B etc … this is just easy thinking for the mass.
First, i make a loop on the concept of life’s flow and inner knownledge to acquire. Somes breeders outperform the potential of theyr respective tools. Don’t dream stoners, it’s not because they was lucky or because it’s simple. It’s because these tools offered to them the failures that was the most easy to digest, and by extension to understand, for them and only for them. If i switch twos specialized guys, the both will only produce mids instead theyr usual pearls.
I have no talent or special feeling myself like these types of guys, i’m just stubborn as hell and never give up. So i use everything i can to maintain the flow and to can continue to read the book of my genpool. If i can fix with a backcrossing program a mistake that i have done three inbred generations before, i just do it over to lose years. I don’t give a fck, i will not use a flat tire on snow just because my ego ask it. I choose my programs only in thinking about my lifespan and the time i can give to my lines, not because “it’s the best method”.
And finally on a blind test on dryed flowers, no one will be able to known what method is used. People will elect the best one simply. I’m not talking about cheated cups off course, where you “binge smoke” samples like a bulimic stoner, but more about private clubs that take it very seriously. The last one i’ve been introduced used blood analysis of judges, not chromato rates that mean nothing. Who trust ? A 50 years old guy that is unable to debate on breeding and that have the same clothes that your own sons, or someone that is ready to give his blood each week to evaluate the momentum of one bud ? I’ve made my choice and since i fear no one (open invitation).
That’s another world when you’re very proud to be beated to death to have overestimated the potency and the whole quality of your last hybrid. You return at work without any anger, on a next level. Each time.
If you don’t have it near your lab’, create one. IT IS the best breeding tool on long term that exist on earth, and your worst enemy in breeding is really your closer friends.
Inbreeding, backcrossing, selfing, whatever … everything is good at the moment you’re on the podium. For real, not in your head.
- Mendelian laws are a powerfull help to use. But only if you understand well the context when they was writed. If you don’t give a fck about who is Mendel, his life, his philosophy and how the fuck he thinked to work like that … just avoid it from your culture. Specially if you’re not specially interrested to set long term inbred lines. Mastering mendel’s laws extrapolation will not give you the garantee to have a competitive weed.
Now the cannabis breeding is a context itself. We all hunt the recessive grail, no matter what you’re doing with your plants. It’s why to stabilize is always more important for us that increasing the average. We can debate on it off course, but it will not change the context. We breed mainly in pure recessive sub groups, and no, “true breeding” mean nothing. Speaking more about a contextual dominance is more close to the truth of the practice.
Hybridize a Jack Herer female with a Black Widow male (original commercial versions, not reworked), the WW will always dominate the strain and the further segregations will always lead to this way. Mendel’s law have nothing to have with it. Is the WW “true breeding” or “breeding true my ass” ?
So why when you do the same but with a MK ultra female, it never happend ? Because one more time, absolute rules fooled you to think that every specimens of every strains are the same.
- “So, if the MK Ultra eat the WW that eated the Jack Herer, we can consider that this strain is “Dominant” like you said ?”
Hybridize it to a Skywalker male and cry your mother to don’t understand anything this way. “Contextually dominant” is what i’ve said, nothing more and nothing less. You will always find a specimen that will eat your so called “breed true” strain.
Mendelian laws are well explained all over the internet, and it’s not my role to explain them in details. But, instead all fake tutorials that i read on it, i can explain you how it work in practice. And i can give the garantee that it’s very easy to verify no matter your level and within twos generations.
It’s what you will read mostly from fake specialists borned in one night about mendel laws and punnet square :
I have a strain A and a strain B. I want to hybridize them then work them inbred.
So, you will get in F1 3xA for 1xB … blablabla
It’s of course a total BS that lead nowhere in practice. Mendel’s law are not scripts for selection. Only dreamers believe that.
For real you will deal with that :
And as you see, it’s a bit more messy that these naive magic tables and mendelian’s scripts.
If you think in term of specimens, i can promise you that you will quickly consider directly that breeding is BS. Because you will cry all your tears to make your crop as clear that the punnet square you initially planned. Jah will beat your ass this way to unselect you.
In practice the individual variations are an interpretation of the breeder himself, his manner to integrate the flow of the genotype that he’s working. You have to accept first that you’re a part of the breeding program, as specimen.
Second, you have to accept that the flow of gens that you have to face is working against you. Turn the equation in all ways and BS that you want, we will select always the best dioecious weed in recessive groups. No matter the average quality of the line, the age of the captain or if the weed was gived to you by alien because you’re the best lol
So you understand now that to breed fully recessive somes quality sub-groups is a bit more tricky that applying individually the mendelian ratios on unsorted specimens.
The reality is that with years you will face numerous generations wich are unable to be sorted without isolating different couples to force a true segregation. Because your context is recessive cannabis and good weed. Not punnet square that are more adapted to wide outdoor crops borned from open polenizations.
Why do you think that selfing and backcrossing are today the main way to survive to the market ? Why do you think that today so called elite cuts replaced IBLs of yesterday ? Ask yourself, take your time.
Apply the mendelian laws to your own selections, not your specimens. And you will always learn how to improve your skills. Do the reverse and each generation will show you a different pattern to learn again from scratch, until you will give up. Killing sheeps will not give you a better whool, to segregate them will.
I known it’s hard to read, sorry for that.
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theres been legendary strains come from bagseed (princess/c99) so you don’t need a million sqf or cuts you just need that one magic bean !!
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