Pythium/Fusarium is not the same as Cyanobacteria (slime-snot covered stems and ends) Find out how I learned what this is and what to do

[CosmoNut]

I think I see where your going.

How long are you going to wait between the start of sterilization and introducing the BA? Edit* so you want to run the clones in the sterile water…I guess you could but I don’t. I think having the BA in the water and established will only help the clones. I was thinking you wanted to sterilize your water give it a day or two then introduce the BA then add the clones.

So I only change out when switching from veg to flower. Now my rez is 80 gallons but even in the cloner no rez change unless the is a problem. Normally takes 7 to 12 dayish but sometimes I leave it in longer and just add water. Cloner is 2-3 gallons.

So that once the BA gets going it stays.

Is your water well or city?

[OriginalDankmaster96]

Yes this is in reference to cloner rez’s. So once BA is colonized, the rez becomes static, and is only topped off. Since standard change out is per week, I’ve cut it in half to 4 days, then I gradually kept adding BA to change over the minor chlorine content, which is from clear to cloudy and bubbly. Can’t smell any. So yes you have the right idea.Yes it is city tap water. I’m thinking of pre-bubbling in a 5 gall bucket before using it. I think perhaps if a rez needs to be changed/cleaned, those first cuts need to be sterile and then after that change out or switch over to BA can keep the rez stable, which Ph seems to be staying. I think 1-4 days are the critical times. The test cut is starting to get a clear film on its end so I think it’s beginning to grow. I even felt it, it’s starting to feel slimy…

[OriginalDankmaster96]

Well BA didn’t work long. I thought I was safe to use higher temps, but it’s not too long after the water is so cloudy and has a funk to it. Maybe it’s too old. It does have particulates when held up to light. I don’t know if that’s normal for Hydroguard. Stems still develop the discoloration brown areas. I akin it to how celery can look, but it’s not mush or soft at first, but eventually it gets there…harder woody cuttings don’t develop as fast as softer do… anyway back to the cooler sterile chlorine Oxine route w addition of 6 drops of Physan 20 to the res. I’m hoping Physan 20 can clear whatever is in the water once and for all. I will say it’s like it incubates trying to increase temps to 77-80 and frequent sprays. 1min on every 10 or 15 mins seems to be too much. So now I’ll do 30 seconds every 20 mins. Seems to be always dripping lifting the lid, that’s why I’ve reduced it and because the pump is large it can heat up fast in a short amount of time. Heat and too much water seem to be factors, yet the cloner has undergone extensive sterilizing steps, new pump, new bubble curtain and even new collars. Also seems like when I get brave and keep the dome off things go to hell quickly, faster wilting. This algal bacteria is the worst and it’s so weird that it keeps happening. I don’t know what to do beyond Physan 20. Hope none of you ever deal with something like this.

[OriginalDankmaster96]

You can see the beginning of the brown algae circled

[OriginalDankmaster96]

And here it is…classic white goo. I’ve been reading H2O2 seems to accelerate growth, and yesterday I tried adding 50 ml before I found that out. So everyone saying to TREAT Cyanobacteria this way is complete misinformation. STOP doing it because w this particular pathogen, you will make things worse for whoever you’re trying to advise and help. Ironically it seems nothing should be added for a week, then the Bennies, which I got TPS Billions to see if that’s potent enough…. The OP at ICMG said this bacterial algae has put people out of growing and I believe it I’ve got to do test runs w throw away cuts to find out what will work. Trying to root clones I want for a crop/mother is fruitless until a solution actually works

Here even better example

[George]

Can you post your sources? Not what I found …

Suppressing Cyanobacteria with Hydrogen Peroxide Is More Effective at High...

[OriginalDankmaster96]

Here is a thread where a grower said they used H2O2 and 48 hrs later he had slime build up. Precisely what I saw…

Clear Slime In Dwc

Richyrich at ICMAG has done very extensive discussion and thread about this, and they say brown algae can’t be treated like root rot. I agree wholeheartedly. This can’t be generalized

Strange Slime buildup on roots

[George]

Yup, I enjoy the “scientific” approach…

[OriginalDankmaster96]

Yes it isn’t scientific research. It’s anecdotal, still you told me treat the infected cuts/root in diluted H202 per chart and because I had to do a make shift bubbler to quarantine them in, seals weren’t light proof and 48-72 hrs after I saw the slime on the ends. This is TWO instances of using H202 that has produced slime…

[George]

Lights produced that slime, not the peroxide, perhaps your dose wasn’t strong enough or you didn’t repeat the treatment…

[OriginalDankmaster96]

No of course the H202 didn’t CAUSE solely, but in conjunction FEEDS and ACCELERATED growth once present, so perhaps that’s a factor to be considered. I think any kind of nutrient feed present in the water combined w any leaks light can get through does activate. BBP told me hypochlorous acid is used in as a root canal disinfectant, so I’m running nothing but that for the next week after a brief Physan 20 rinse cycle. Once I can’t smell chlorine, I’m adding the bennies… It’s very clear to me adding concoctions of nutes as normal when I start cuts isn’t the right way to prevent what’s happening. It’s definitely something to do w initial water quality, though I wasn’t growing last year summer so I don’t know if I can factor seasonal change. One factor that does seem to connect is chlorine concentration reading about one grower testing two sources of water where they were growing at, and the previous one being higher ppm chlorine than his current location.

[OriginalDankmaster96]

This is madness…chlorine dissipated in about 3 days so I have been adding a quart of pre-bubbled bennies w Mag pro trace elements to slowly change chemistry. I tried to keep the done off overnight trying to run the pump longer to warm internal temp, and this morning I found another damped off. Then I start pulling out others out, and viola the white shit cum stuck on the end There is no end.

The only thing left I can think of since RO bottled lacks trace elements, is to boil tap water and then add it in after cooled. I can’t think of any way this pathogen survives that step to be active in the cloner. I am going to find out my “free chlorine” content in the tap, so I know what I’m dealing w. Adding water pre bubbled w the bennies isn’t going to work.

Back to crystal clear treated water, but I’m going to run it warmer and longer, add 2-3 test cuts in until I get a viable root. It’s impossible to root cuts wanted for mother/crop purposes while this keeps happening, so now it’s going to be about testing EVERY aspect of rooting clones.

The first test will be ordinary bleach 2 drops per gall, ph’d water. No hormones/power/gel/additives used. I’ll only cut underwater. If after 2 weeks or slimed/damped off I’ll move to the next up, Oxine, Rez Clear, UC roots, Physan 20, gel only, powder only, hormone solution only, lights far away and dim, lights close and brighter, hotter and colder temp zones, dome on always and no dome. This will be a process of elimination to find out what keeps the res stable to root.

Every test will use boiled water/cooled ph’d. I will not fill from tap, bubble or treat water used that isn’t boiled, but I will do one for RO/bottled only. My baseline for all of this is using boiled water, and eliminating each product/method/aspect that isn’t a cause or finding what is the source… I can see why aero cloners are thrown on a shelf in disgust now…already thinking 1.5” wrapped RW cubes here I come after wasting 250 Could’ve bought a thousand of those for that much

[eskobar]

No expert on aero cloner but try to clone on cooler temps. I had the same issues years ago.
It is often that i saw all kinds of troubles because the aero rez was to warm.

H2O2 never gave me good results, i found it was very unstable.
Home made rezcleaner does the job, also Collodial Silver works but is more expensive (i do not have a Collodial silver machine)

Ive experienced that additions of an kinds, they are troubles.
Keeping it simple, Tapwater, rezcleaner and for example Hormex (very easy to DIY) for 7 days
Dump
next 7 days, Tapwater, flowering nutes and rezcleaner does the job here.

When i started loggin the rez water temps, things became clear to me.
Slime or no slime depended on the rez temps here.

[OriginalDankmaster96]

You could be right @eskobar however did you suspect any light breaches ? The Permaklone collars have too wide a slot, don’t close around the stem when put into a cloner hole. So I’m suspect the design won’t work for this situation. The trouble is I did clone at cooler temps (under 68) and this still happened. For almost 4 months and I kept a rotation of ice packs Id freeze to maintain chilled water. Even while I first noticed roots were no longer happening after the OP pics I kept it cold trying, but even colder didn’t stop or prevent it. Perhaps not as warm (72-74), but the cooler I need it, the pump needs to be longer interval between sprays. Many swear by a few drops of bleach, so I’ll start there and work my way through the list of products, and all my current flowering nutes are organics, so using a chemical concentrate like GH flora (bloom and micro) may be better, which I’ll have to get.

[OriginalDankmaster96]

Well, I may be wrong and I can admit that like a man, and other growers too. I’ll just say for now it’s the case of what you think is the cause when it’s the furthest from your mind. Let’s just say dirty dipping spoons and pipettes is asking for it as an extra costly mistake. Also may need to consider wearing nitrile

Far far more than water, but that’s only perception. Needless to say Mike at Permaclone is more than 82 dollar collars, and he refunded me while we work this through. So those of you who’ve thought about those collars, the support that goes with them is incomparable. He comes across as in the business of pathogen control, guidance and removal, not just marketing collars. He has convinced me those collars will help get through it.

Anyway, 2 biggest take aways so far are. Have an extra measuring spoon set/ pipettes for cloning, separate Ph up and down bottles and never dip in product containers. It’s so much more easier to have this pathogen inside products and you won’t know it’s there. Anyway bottles I’ve suspected I dipped in, which thankfully aren’t too many are being replaced. For now cloner is going 4 days at 30ml bleach rinse cycle and saying hello RW cubes for the interim. This thread will continue to evolve into the solution so everyone will know what to do and what not to do.

[OriginalDankmaster96]

Oh man, this microbe has no known origin though Cyanobacteria is mentioned as speculation. It’s not water or light. I’m learning I could’ve gone months to years with no occurrence. Its nature and It’s all about creating a barrier of 1ml gal bleach dilution (I’ll probably use a drop of Oxine for extra strength) and spray on everything touched and handled AND as I’m doing cuttings around me. Everything everyone has said to do is wrong, including myself! Product inside and on bottles contamination, equipment and measuring contamination, surface and area contamination. It’s far far beyond the cloner unit it’s self!

[eskobar]

You are very right on that. Working sterile is key in aero cloning.
My collars here come from Ali Express and are very cheap (they did raise prices to last year but still cheap)
Boiled water, the moment it leaves the boiling point, contamination begins allready.
Sterile scalpel cutter, new blade each time. While taking cuts, putting the scalpel in a glass of iso each time.
Aero Cloner itself, i let it run for some hours, where the collars are floating in the rez with hot tapwater and half a cup of bleach.
After sterilisation, i just dump the rez and only spray out very minimal with tapwater.
Nitrile gloves, always when handling aero.
Everything you touch around you, every bit of gear you use must be sterile.

After sterilisation and lil flushing out the bleach, that first refill allready need instant rezcleaner or collodial silver. After the clones are made and the aero is ready to startup, more rezcleaner or collodial silver.
The more products you add, the higher the risk for contamination.

Organic nutrients for aero is not ok.
GHE Micro and Bloom work very good, ive used it often and still do. (but i also tested other flowering nutes, it works)

First 7 days, hormone concentrate or rootstim in the rez
(Never use clonex gel or any powder rooting agents, this is big troubles)
Dump
Refill with this
5ml/gallon GHE bloom
2,5ml/gallon GHE micro
NO more rootstims or hormones

Before you see roots, its not needed to set the PH, but it can be done to.

Make your own hormex and rezcleaner. Easy to DIY.

People who buy an aero cloner or build one, the first run is most of the times succesfully. But then the runs after this first are harder because of the contamination.

An error i see allot is that people clean their aero cloner with to rough sponges. They create rougher surfaces where bacteria like to live and hide. The reservoir must stay smooth, handled with care and the sterelisation should come from an oxidiser and not from rubbing.

Ive learned my lessons the hard way.

[OriginalDankmaster96]

You’re right @eskobar and I might add, taking habits from RW/dome cloning don’t die hard. It’s far more easy to be laxed with that method, so consecutive runs drop in rates… you’ve definitely added a lot of good info to this aero cloning compendium.

Anyway, after 4 days cycling 30 ml bleach
. I dumped. I didn’t rinse, and air dried for a day. After removing old tarps that block accidental sprays from electronics/outlet and putting in new tarp, I brought in the cloner. Sprayed down w Oxine 1 drop 32 oz dilution. Wiped off. Then Physan 20 1 drop at 20 oz dilution (both RO) I had previously boiled 1 gall and chilled it, so it sat while I sanitized the entire area where cloner is. I decided to do it again, but just near that point. 1 drop of Oxine per 32 oz. With the water ready and cycling. I make a small glass of RO water and a drop of rez clear. I take my shears and mist spray Physan on them. I’ve taken 2 test cuts, into the glass. I have a glass baking dish. Pour the RO water. Wait 2-3 mins, submerge stems ends, cut, remove the stipule and knots then scrape lightly. 20 ml of Hormex and nothing else added. Put the dome on. No timer. After I’m done I’m spray the Physan all around me and all the tools/products, outside of the lid/dome. Even though this area is at the edge of a rug, I spray around and down this entire area as I’m walking away. Gloves off. I’m done

Let’s see if all these adjustments prove to be the real solution

[OriginalDankmaster96]

Well just about 1 week in…time to update

This looks normal and close to strike, which now tells me what the real solution is here after multiple rinse cycles.

Do not, I repeat DO NOT overlook wearing nitrile gloves in aero cloning. I’ll bet anything too many growers don’t even think to use gloves. This should be #1 and I won’t touch cuttings from now without gloves on. Make that a habit above all else.

DO NOT share ANY measuring equipment from main grow area. Get a 2nd set only for cloning. The only piece is the Ph pen. The reason I say this, I we tend to dip the smaller spoons in bottles since it’s hard to pour without spilling more and wasting it. I think the spoons/pipettes are safe using only cloning products. This also goes for the Ph bottles too. If you’re like me and buy big 16-32 oz Ph bottles and refill smaller 8oz bottles as it empties, get a 2nd set for cloning use. Isolation from contamination, especially if you’re a bit messier.

Have spray bottles w either bleach/Oxine/Physan 20 dilution to mist spray on what is being touched and used. Take no chances, and get in the habit of spraying what you touch and use. Your mindset has to be beyond the unit to the vicinity…

Now I don’t know if boiling/pasteurization of water is part of this. For me, I think topping off w water that’s brought near boiling point and cooled off ends up being more sterilized than chemically treating w hypochlorous. It’s staying crystal clear doing it this way, but I am adding a drop of Oxine to every 32 oz I boil in micro for 5 mins. I’m taking extra precautions that may not be necessary.

The advice to solve this pathogen was mostly relegated to the cloner and internal, not external and surroundings. And THAT may be the missing link not being considered this is the source. I can’t call it a success until I have an actual root strike, but unlike my other attempts that were done as advised this current attempt is working.

[RandomHumanoid]

I gave up on my diy cloner for now. I kept finding a slimy pump cord. So its getting to warm and growing bad stuff imo. Just posting so people dont overlook it. When your checking for sliminess, run your fingers on the cord to your pump where its submerged, because it could be a point of failure.
I even tried a timer with 1 minute on 5 off and it made no difference. Within days it was slimy. I guess I need a smaller pump with a bigger cord, but I had just replaced the pump and a smaller one would mean I need less nozzles, which means rebuilding the whole thing anyway. I’m trying to make a simple 5gallon bucket setup with an air stone this morning.