Pythium/Fusarium is not the same as Cyanobacteria (slime-snot covered stems and ends) Find out how I learned what this is and what to do

No expert on aero cloner but try to clone on cooler temps. I had the same issues years ago.
It is often that i saw all kinds of troubles because the aero rez was to warm.

H2O2 never gave me good results, i found it was very unstable.
Home made rezcleaner does the job, also Collodial Silver works but is more expensive (i do not have a Collodial silver machine)

Ive experienced that additions of an kinds, they are troubles.
Keeping it simple, Tapwater, rezcleaner and for example Hormex (very easy to DIY) for 7 days
Dump
next 7 days, Tapwater, flowering nutes and rezcleaner does the job here.

When i started loggin the rez water temps, things became clear to me.
Slime or no slime depended on the rez temps here.

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You could be right @eskobar however did you suspect any light breaches ? The Permaklone collars have too wide a slot, don’t close around the stem when put into a cloner hole. So I’m suspect the design won’t work for this situation. The trouble is I did clone at cooler temps (under 68) and this still happened. For almost 4 months and I kept a rotation of ice packs Id freeze to maintain chilled water. Even while I first noticed roots were no longer happening after the OP pics I kept it cold trying, but even colder didn’t stop or prevent it. Perhaps not as warm (72-74), but the cooler I need it, the pump needs to be longer interval between sprays. Many swear by a few drops of bleach, so I’ll start there and work my way through the list of products, and all my current flowering nutes are organics, so using a chemical concentrate like GH flora (bloom and micro) may be better, which I’ll have to get.

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Well, I may be wrong and I can admit that like a man, and other growers too. I’ll just say for now it’s the case of what you think is the cause when it’s the furthest from your mind. Let’s just say dirty dipping spoons and pipettes is asking for it as an extra costly mistake. Also may need to consider wearing nitrile :gloves:

Far far more than water, but that’s only perception. Needless to say Mike at Permaclone is more than 82 dollar collars, and he refunded me while we work this through. So those of you who’ve thought about those collars, the support that goes with them is incomparable. He comes across as in the business of pathogen control, guidance and removal, not just marketing collars. He has convinced me those collars will help get through it.

Anyway, 2 biggest take aways so far are. Have an extra measuring spoon set/ pipettes for cloning, separate Ph up and down bottles and never dip in product containers. It’s so much more easier to have this pathogen inside products and you won’t know it’s there. Anyway bottles I’ve suspected I dipped in, which thankfully aren’t too many are being replaced. For now cloner is going 4 days at 30ml bleach rinse cycle and saying hello RW cubes for the interim. This thread will continue to evolve into the solution so everyone will know what to do and what not to do.

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Oh man, this microbe has no known origin though Cyanobacteria is mentioned as speculation. It’s not water or light. I’m learning I could’ve gone months to years with no occurrence. Its nature and It’s all about creating a barrier of 1ml gal bleach dilution (I’ll probably use a drop of Oxine for extra strength) and spray on everything touched and handled AND as I’m doing cuttings around me. Everything everyone has said to do is wrong, including myself! Product inside and on bottles contamination, equipment and measuring contamination, surface and area contamination. It’s far far beyond the cloner unit it’s self!

You are very right on that. Working sterile is key in aero cloning.
My collars here come from Ali Express and are very cheap (they did raise prices to last year but still cheap)
Boiled water, the moment it leaves the boiling point, contamination begins allready.
Sterile scalpel cutter, new blade each time. While taking cuts, putting the scalpel in a glass of iso each time.
Aero Cloner itself, i let it run for some hours, where the collars are floating in the rez with hot tapwater and half a cup of bleach.
After sterilisation, i just dump the rez and only spray out very minimal with tapwater.
Nitrile gloves, always when handling aero.
Everything you touch around you, every bit of gear you use must be sterile.

After sterilisation and lil flushing out the bleach, that first refill allready need instant rezcleaner or collodial silver. After the clones are made and the aero is ready to startup, more rezcleaner or collodial silver.
The more products you add, the higher the risk for contamination.

Organic nutrients for aero is not ok.
GHE Micro and Bloom work very good, ive used it often and still do. (but i also tested other flowering nutes, it works)

First 7 days, hormone concentrate or rootstim in the rez
(Never use clonex gel or any powder rooting agents, this is big troubles)
Dump
Refill with this
5ml/gallon GHE bloom
2,5ml/gallon GHE micro
NO more rootstims or hormones

Before you see roots, its not needed to set the PH, but it can be done to.

Make your own hormex and rezcleaner. Easy to DIY.

People who buy an aero cloner or build one, the first run is most of the times succesfully. But then the runs after this first are harder because of the contamination.

An error i see allot is that people clean their aero cloner with to rough sponges. They create rougher surfaces where bacteria like to live and hide. The reservoir must stay smooth, handled with care and the sterelisation should come from an oxidiser and not from rubbing.

Ive learned my lessons the hard way.

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You’re right @eskobar and I might add, taking habits from RW/dome cloning don’t die hard. It’s far more easy to be laxed with that method, so consecutive runs drop in rates… you’ve definitely added a lot of good info to this aero cloning compendium.

Anyway, after 4 days cycling 30 ml bleach
. I dumped. I didn’t rinse, and air dried for a day. After removing old tarps that block accidental sprays from electronics/outlet and putting in new tarp, I brought in the cloner. Sprayed down w Oxine 1 drop 32 oz dilution. Wiped off. Then Physan 20 1 drop at 20 oz dilution (both RO) I had previously boiled 1 gall and chilled it, so it sat while I sanitized the entire area where cloner is. I decided to do it again, but just near that point. 1 drop of Oxine per 32 oz. With the water ready and cycling. I make a small glass of RO water and a drop of rez clear. I take my shears and mist spray Physan on them. I’ve taken 2 test cuts, into the glass. I have a glass baking dish. Pour the RO water. Wait 2-3 mins, submerge stems ends, cut, remove the stipule and knots then scrape lightly. 20 ml of Hormex and nothing else added. Put the dome on. No timer. After I’m done I’m spray the Physan all around me and all the tools/products, outside of the lid/dome. Even though this area is at the edge of a rug, I spray around and down this entire area as I’m walking away. Gloves off. I’m done

Let’s see if all these adjustments prove to be the real solution

Well just about 1 week in…time to update

This looks normal and close to strike, which now tells me what the real solution is here after multiple rinse cycles.

Do not, I repeat DO NOT overlook wearing nitrile gloves in aero cloning. I’ll bet anything too many growers don’t even think to use gloves. This should be #1 and I won’t touch cuttings from now without gloves on. Make that a habit above all else.

DO NOT share ANY measuring equipment from main grow area. Get a 2nd set only for cloning. The only piece is the Ph pen. The reason I say this, I we tend to dip the smaller spoons in bottles since it’s hard to pour without spilling more and wasting it. I think the spoons/pipettes are safe using only cloning products. This also goes for the Ph bottles too. If you’re like me and buy big 16-32 oz Ph bottles and refill smaller 8oz bottles as it empties, get a 2nd set for cloning use. Isolation from contamination, especially if you’re a bit messier.

Have spray bottles w either bleach/Oxine/Physan 20 dilution to mist spray on what is being touched and used. Take no chances, and get in the habit of spraying what you touch and use. Your mindset has to be beyond the unit to the vicinity…

Now I don’t know if boiling/pasteurization of water is part of this. For me, I think topping off w water that’s brought near boiling point and cooled off ends up being more sterilized than chemically treating w hypochlorous. It’s staying crystal clear doing it this way, but I am adding a drop of Oxine to every 32 oz I boil in micro for 5 mins. I’m taking extra precautions that may not be necessary.

The advice to solve this pathogen was mostly relegated to the cloner and internal, not external and surroundings. And THAT may be the missing link not being considered this is the source. I can’t call it a success until I have an actual root strike, but unlike my other attempts that were done as advised this current attempt is working.

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I gave up on my diy cloner for now. I kept finding a slimy pump cord. So its getting to warm and growing bad stuff imo. Just posting so people dont overlook it. When your checking for sliminess, run your fingers on the cord to your pump where its submerged, because it could be a point of failure.
I even tried a timer with 1 minute on 5 off and it made no difference. Within days it was slimy. I guess I need a smaller pump with a bigger cord, but I had just replaced the pump and a smaller one would mean I need less nozzles, which means rebuilding the whole thing anyway. I’m trying to make a simple 5gallon bucket setup with an air stone this morning.

How’s that going? I’m here in the thread because my 5 gallon bucket with an air stone is acting (and smelling) suspect.

I made it, but still ended up with white stuff all over inside after a few days. I pulled the clones and stuck them in rockwool cubes. I’m going to revisit the cloner stuff when I got better water, and maybe some kind of res cleaner. I’ve gotten cloners to work here before, but it wasn’t always without issues.

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It’s been awhile since I’ve revisited. The reason being I KNEW it would take a long time to recalibrate the cloner. Not just one, two, three or even four attempts. It takes repeated attempts, but you don’t take cuts for crops. Just take 2-3 at a time. If they brown/mush ends, do it AGAIN and AGAIN. Also adjusting to INDIVIDUAL situations, not what EVERYONE else is doing. Everyone else doesn’t need a dome, but I DO because of low humidity. Everyone else doesn’t need to run timers, but I do because the room where the cloner is heats up during the day and pump drives up temp too high. Continue to TWEAK and treat water as you addd it, don’t be frustrated and defeated over it. It’s taken me 2 months and finally I can see the light at the end of this…

I’ve STOPPED using Permaklone collars, there’s flaws unfortunately not compatible w my cloner and lighting. I’m convinced that slot may not have stopped lighting getting through. Ending the Cyanobacteria part was faster ISOLATING products/measuring tools used from organic nutrients, than getting cuts to strike beyond callouses, and some cuts wouldn’t callous either or seal. Gels do seem to cause issues, but I believe the powder can seal the end well and stick better to the ends while being sprayed becoming a cap.

The latest cut, my CripXmas A is normal looking. All I did was light scrape, roll in powder on the sides and cover end to slightly wet it. I can’t see fit the life why this WON’T root completely. To me this cut looks NORMAL. Agree or disagree? If I’m right, it takes a good amount of time and STERILE practices to get through it. RW and a dome w tray to root cuts in the meantime is a short term alternative and not to just capitulate to. The cloner has to be continually active to recalibrate the internal chemistry of water and hormone nutes, and eventually it resets. You’re going to lose multiple attempts in the process. Getting this bacteria issue never will be a FAST FIX, and I think too many growers give up not realizing it. I don’t give up easily. I’m very persistent at solving issues to their conclusion. I think that persistence has allowed me to get to light at the end of this tunnel. So use that drive your motivation to see it through to regain your cloner productivity👍

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The most important thing Ive learned from my time fixing hydro ops in warehouses is to block out all light from the solution.

If its just straight water, its not a problem.
But the moment you have anions (N, P) in water solution, any light hitting the water will start growing pathogenic microbes.

One year, I was called into a multi-warehouse op by the owner. The ‘master-grower’ had replaced the baskets in the Current Culture system with baskets from his home grow.
For months, they were battling toxic algae blooms.
I came in and saw the water right through the baskets and laughed.
To grow algae (cyanobacteria) you need water, nutrients, and light. Take away one of those and you wont get algae.

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I’ve DONE it! :tada: :smiley: Everything I said to do worked to get it back.

Yes, @Wuachuma I AGREE. I think cloning collars aren’t ALL compatible to different cloner machines. Loose holes and cracks are bad.

Like these

I have to retract Permaclone. Material is sterile and stays clean, but the center open slot doesn’t close completely around leaving cracks.

I explained that to Mike and hope he listened. I’ll need to get the exact type and never stray from ezklone/turboklone design that keeps light sealed out.

This a lesson in keeping with the appropriate sealed collar designed for the unit. Just like the grower who switched those baskets :thinking:

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@OriginalDankmaster96 I got those White fungus in my stem last run,I used Coco coir and frequento fertigation with lot of runoff in late flowering,that could be possible to have brought the bad budrot I saw in the clusters and denser Bud structure
Do you confirm?

I think if a collar is too loose around the stem where sprayers can leak up the stem, keeping it wet without drying out any, yes I think that could definitely be the cause of the fungus to grow and infect.

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What about moist conditions?
I explain Better:
In my tent I have lower spot where the pots sit with an hygromether that ready 20°C and 70%rh AVG

Going higher,at canopy level I have 26-25°C and 56-60 rh.

Now,the Coco coir stays moist since I do High frequency fertigation and lot of fungus gnats spawn and take home in the Coco,I can see billions transparent larvae in the runoff water.
The plants are tall and that’s how I got two separate enviroments.Could this lower zone Always moist be the conditions to my continuos budrot experience?
@OriginalDankmaster96

Closer to the bulb is always gonna have lower humidity than further from the bulb.

For the gnats, let the soil have more dry in its wet dry-cycle, or, use bascilus thuringensis (BTi)

For bud rot, prevent by spraying the plants and week2 flowers with EM1 or Lacto Bascilus

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What Is EM1? Where can I source lacto Bacillus?
Sorry to bother you my Friends @Wuachuma

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And Lacto you can make at home pretty easy in about 2 weeks.

Note - i dont stabilize with molasses. I just use em1 within 6 months and LABs within a couole weeks.

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