IAA may help you with old seeds too.
The science of Auxin
Auxins are plant hormones.
The most important auxin produced by plants is indole-3-acetic acid (IAA).
It plays important roles in a number of plant activities, including:
I have also recently begun using Brass instead of Gibb.
The plants stretch out less after the sprout.
With Gibb I found even though seeds would sprout they would stretch themselves to death.
Not all but most.
Like a 1 foot tall seedling, no matter how much light they got they kept stretching til they died.
From my notes:
The science of Brassinolide
0.1% Brassinolide Specification:
Product Name : 24-Epibrassinolide - Brassinolide - BRASS - BL
Cas No: [78821-43-9]
Structure Formula : C28H48O6
Molecular Weight 480.68
Appearance: White crystals
Purity: 0.1%
Melting point: 254-256°C
Brassinolide is fully water soluble.
Brassinolide
Natural steroid found in plants.
Promotes cell elongation and division in plants.
It helps in increasing the percentage of fruit setting.
Regulates differentiation in tissue culture.
When applied during flowering stage, can decrease the chances of flower dropping and fruit dropping.
Improves the plant’s ability to deal with diseases.
Improves the growth of the germinating seed.
Can be used in drench or foliar feed applications.
Strengthens a plant’s immunity to stresses such as drought, salinity and cold.
Is an important element for plant growth and helps increase yield.
Can be used in the germination of seeds, or propagation of clones.
Can be used in the vegetative growth or flower stages.
Can be used in drench feeds, hydroponic systems, soil, coco, soilless mediums, and foliar sprays.
When given extra shots of the plant steroid brassinolide, plants “pump up” like major league baseball players do on steroids.
Tracing brassinolide’s signal deep into the cell’s nucleus, researchers at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies have unraveled how the growth-boosting hormone accomplishes its job at the molecular level.
The Salk researchers, led by Joanne Chory, a professor in the Plant Molecular and Cellular Biology Laboratory and a Howard Hughes Medical Institute investigator, published their findings in this week’s journal Nature.
"The steroid hormone brassinolide is central to plants’ growth. Without it, plants remain extreme dwarfs.
If we are going to understand how plants grow, we need to understand the response pathway to this hormone," says Chory.
“This study clarifies what’s going on downstream in the nucleus when brassinolide signals a plant cell to grow.”
Brassinolide, a member of a family of plant hormones known as brassinosteroids, is a key element of plants’ response to light, enabling them to adjust growth to reach light or strengthen stems.
Exploiting its potent growth-promoting properties could increase crop yields or enable growers to make plants more resistant to drought, pathogens, and cold weather.
Unfortunately, synthesizing brassinosteroids in the lab is complicated and expensive.
But understanding how plant steroids work at the molecular level may one day lead to cheap and simple ways to bulk up crop harvests.
Likewise, since low brassinolide levels are associated with dwarfism, manipulating hormone levels during dormant seasons may allow growers to control the height of grasses, trees or other plants, thereby eliminating the need to constantly manicure gardens.
Based on earlier studies, the Salk researchers had developed a model that explained what happens inside a plant cell when brassinolide signals a plant cell to start growing.
But a model is just a model. Often evidence in favor of a particular model is indirect and could support multiple models.
Describing the components of the signaling cascade that relays brassinolide’s message into a cell’s nucleus, postdoctoral researcher and lead author of the study Grégory Vert, now at the Centre national de la recherche scientifique (CNRS) in Montpellier, France, said, "All the players are old acquaintances and we knew from genetic studies that they were involved in this pathway.
But when we revisited the old crew it became clear that we had to revise the original model."
When brassinosteroids bind a receptor on the cell’s surface, an intracellular enzyme called BIN2 is inactivated by an unknown mechanism.
Previously, investigators thought that inactivation of BIN2, which is a kinase, freed a second protein known as BES1 from entrapment in the cytoplasm, the watery compartment surrounding a cell’s nucleus, and allowed it to migrate or “shuttle” into the nucleus where it tweaked the activity of genes regulating plant growth.
A closer inspection, however, revealed that BIN2 resides in multiple compartments of a cell, including the nucleus, and it is there – not in the cytoplasm – that BIN2 meets up with BES1 and prevents it from activating growth genes.
“All of a sudden the ‘BES1 shuttle model’ no longer made sense,” says Vert, adding that it took many carefully designed experiments to convince himself and others that it was time to retire the old model.
A new picture of how brassinosteroids stimulate plant growth now emerges based on those experiments: steroid hormones are still thought to inactivate BIN2 and reciprocally activate BES1, but instead of freeing BES1 to shuttle into the nucleus, it is now clear that the crucial activation step occurs in the nucleus where BES1 is already poised for action.
Once released from BIN2 inhibition, BES1 associates with itself and other regulatory factors, and this modified form of BES1 binds to DNA, activating scores of target genes.
Referring to the work of Vert and other members of the brassinosteroid team, Chory says, "The old model may be out, but Greg’s new studies, together with those of former postdocs, Yanhai Yin and Zhiyong Wang, have allowed us to unravel the nuclear events controlling brassinosteroid responses at the genomic level.
This turns our attention to the last mystery: the gap in our understanding of the events between steroid binding at the cell surface and these nuclear mechanisms."
Brassinosteroid functions in a broad range of disease resistance
Brassinolide (BL), considered to be the most important brassinosteroid (BR) and playing pivotal roles in the hormonal regulation of plant growth and development, was found to induce disease resistance in plants.
To study the potentialities of BL activity on stress responding systems, we analyzed its ability to induce disease resistance in tobacco and rice plants.
Wild-type tobacco treated with BL exhibited enhanced resistance to the viral pathogen tobacco mosaic virus (TMV), the bacterial pathogen Pseudomonas syringae pv. tabaci (Pst), and the fungal pathogen Oidium sp.
The measurement of salicylic acid (SA) in wild-type plants treated with BL and the pathogen infection assays using NahG transgenic plants indicate that BL-induced resistance does not require SA biosynthesis.
BL treatment did not induce either acidic or basic pathogenesis-related (PR) gene expression, suggesting that BL-induced resistance is distinct from systemic acquired resistance (SAR) and wound-inducible disease resistance.
Analysis using brassinazole 2001, a specific inhibitor for BR biosynthesis, and the measurement of BRs in TMV-infected tobacco leaves indicate that steroid hormone-mediated disease resistance (BDR) plays part in defense response in tobacco.
Simultaneous activation of SAR and BDR by SAR inducers and BL, respectively, exhibited additive protective effects against TMV and Pst, indicating that there is no cross-talk between SAR- and BDR-signaling pathway downstream of BL.
In addition to the enhanced resistance to a broad range of diseases in tobacco, BL induced resistance in rice to rice blast and bacterial blight diseases caused by Magnaporthe grisea and Xanthomonas oryzae pv. oryzae, respectively.
Our data suggest that BDR functions in the innate immunity system of higher plants including dicotyledonous and monocotyledonous species.
The interesting part is that Brass. doesn’t use the salycilyic acid pathways, but does induce SAR.
Brassinosteroid:
This is a plant steroid, it boosts yield, growth, rate of photosynthesis, phototropism, stress resistance (abiotic and biotic), root induction and growth, etc.
Brassinosteroids (BRs) are probably my favorite PGR, along with tricontanol.
Both can cause plants to strech if over applied…
There is a natural brassinosteroid called “brassinolide” (BL), it’s probably the ‘strongest’ form of BR verses BR analogs like 24‐epibrassinolide (EBR).
The main reason BR analogs are a good choice is they last a long time (length of bioavailability) in water.
Where as brassinoloide only lasts ~3-10 days in water until it’s unavailable (it breaks down).
That isn’t much of an issue for us, because we apply it as a foliar spray, however, I plan to analytically test BL and EBR to see if there is a worthwhile difference in affects on plants this year.
From my non-analytical trails thus far, I see no difference between the various types of BRs.
Here are some possible benefits for plants (e.g., cannabis) from application of BR:
Increased yield
Increased disease resistance
Increased root growth for cuttings and growing plants
Increased light tracking by leafs (i.e., phototropism)
Increased rate of photosynthesis (Pn) by virtue of increased photon (light) usage, e.g., light-regulated gene expression
Increased stress resistance such as cold, drought, media salinity and biotic attack
Increased growth rate by action of BR as a growth regulator vis-a-vis control of light-regulated gene expression and cell elongation.
Whoa…. That made me dizzy.
Yea, I hear ya, from my notes not my brain.
I figured those with bigger brains may find value in that post.
It is good info. but a lot to take in.
Quick Summary:
Brass makes a good substitute for Gibb, when sprouting old seeds.
It also can allow you to use less Gibb making the seedlings less prone to stretch-to-death syndrome.
Oh and this…nobody talks about this…ever. 
Brassinolide enhances seed germination although apparently not by the same pathway as GA.
Why this makes sense - Just as GA enhances seed germination BR should also, by releasing stored starches found in the seed.
Yup Shag… its good stuff.
When the concentration of GA3 is between 20-80mg/L, the germination rate and germination potential of hemp are gradually increasing with the increase of concentration.
Here is why that may not be the best idea.
For one Gibb. is the male hormone in cannabis and could lead to intersex issues.
As a growth hormone, Gibb. or GA has the potential to mutate genetic material, so by using GA to play with a plant’s growth cycle we may accidentally cause a mutation to occur.
These mutations are not controllable by any means and the results can even cause plant death.
When the concentration of IAA was 20-40mg/L, the germination rate of hemp seeds increased with increasing concentration.
Thank you @Tonygreen for finding this info.
Source:
I have not tried this as of yet…
Found this seed sowing tip in my notes.
Sow seeds in usual sterile seeding mix. Water using a 1 mM solution of ethrel (1 mM = 1 millimolar = 1 gram powder in 6 litres of water).
Enclose seed flat in plastic bag and place in a refrigerator for 2 weeks.
Arrange for the refrigerator light to stay on 24 hours a day.
Water with the ethrel solution if the sowing medium shows signs of drying.
After 2 weeks, expose seed flat to room temperature and normal light. Germination should be complete in 2-4 weeks.
So we know these things can help old seeds sprout …
smoke
Temps
Gibb/GA
Brass
Chitosan
Saltpeter
Antioxidants
Tissue culture formulas
BAP
Thiamine/vit.B
H2o2
Bleach/chlorine
digestive aids (bromelain, papain) ect.
Very low concentrations of fertilizers.
Kelp
Scarification/scuffing
@Comacus
Do you still have the info we discussed about the salt peter for seed starting?
Remember you found the info on the ready-made seed starter and posted it at the Lab.
I can no longer find it there and I can not seem to find it in my notes.
Do you know what thread that was located in?
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks
Shag
Has anyone tried soaking seeds in a Sprouted Seed Tea extract! It seems like sprouted seeds would have all the goodies/hormones needed. Just soak the cannabis seeds with some barley seed extract.
@shag I think it is in this thread here somewhere and at the Lab in the old seed germinating thread.
But, I got it as Seeds n Such. It goes in and out of stock but looks like they have it.
Have you found any techniques to get the plant to start growing when the old seed germinates but only the Cotyledons are present with no growing tip? I started several older seeds, and have 5-6 that I got to germinate but that are not generating a growing tip.
The strangest one is a Master Thai Love Sick #1. It looks like there are two female flowers but no growing tip! Hard to see in the picture but under a 30X loupe they appear to be white female pistils.
@Comacus Thank you for the link!
Did we ever work out the amount of salt peter we needed for seed popping?
I do not seem to have any notes on that at all.
I found this on the web.
A saltpeter steep is made by mixing 1 teaspoon of saltpeter in 1 quart of water. Seeds are steeped in the room-temperature solution for as little as four hours or as many as 72 hours. Larger seeds and seeds with tougher husks are steeped for the longer time, smaller seeds or those with more fragile husks for the shorter time. An alternate method is to soak a pad in the saltpeter solution. Place the seeds on half of the pad and fold the other half over the top and allow it to sit for up to 72 hours. After this pretreatment, the seeds are rinsed and planted immediately.
I have not had an opportunity to try anything out on plants that only the Cotyledons are present with no growing tip.
But I would guess brassinolide and auxin should have at least some benefit.
I suggest IAA, but IBA should work too.
GA/Gibb too, but that is the male cannabis hormone and may cause intersex issues.
They should induce growth in the growing tip, in full-grown plants this is exactly what they do.
Amounts should be listed above.
Hmmm?
This may be a real good tip.
I may have to try some DMSO next time.
The DMSO should in theory help all the ingredients in the mix penetrate the seed shell better.
I know it works that way on human skin, and I hear it will penetrate some rubber gloves too.
I’ll check my notes on the concentration I used.
I used a solution of only 1-2% salt peter.
So a gram of salt peter to 100ml is a 1% solution.
I also don’t think leaving them in for longer then 24 hours is a good idea.
Btw a cheap way to get salt peter AKA Potassium Nitrate, and without getting a red flag next to your name is to go to Lowes or home Depot and pick up a black and orange bottle of Tree Stump Remover.
I think it’s like 10 bucks for about 4 - 6 cups of it. Basically enough to last you a lifetime haha
Make sure to check the back label, but the one I found was 100% Potassium Nitrate.
You can then careful grind the granules. Tho it’s not flammable, it is a strong oxydiser, and will accelerate a burning fire. Just store it safely and don’t mix it with stuff near a fire.
As for the beans that only have Cotyledons growing, do you mean there is no root showing at all ?
For older beans I picked up a very useful tip from a good friend on here awhile ago.
When your older strains pop, only burry them up to the seed. So just bury the taproot and leave the seed case above the soil.
For some reason this worked from me incredibly well. I think it has to do with the seed not having the energy to break through the surface.
This way it allows the root to grow down and collect resources and not spend energy trying to break the surface. I don’t really know tho.
I just know that side by side comparisons showed me that when I used the same older strains, if I buried the entire seed they would only come up 25% of the time. I had amazing success when I just buried it to the seed base tho.
And if you have some beans to work with, please try the worm castings Tek I outlined earlier. That has been by far my most successful method with older strains to date. I now don’t use anything else. Tho combining a few methods together never hurt either.
†
Thanks for that I needed some credible cannabis info, I think that was just general seed knowledge I posted.
See the pic below… no growing tip, well it is there, it just ain’t growing…LOL
Not the best pic but it will do.
Agreed!
Worm castings contain microbes to prevent infection, just the right amount of food, and hormones such as auxin as well as cytokinin.
Probably more but that is from memory.
I found these microclone kits, and am seriously considering buying one. My seeds are currently stored in my fridge until I decide what to do with them.
https://microclone.com/store/ols/products/microclone-sterile-seed-germinating-kit
What do you guys think?
I am used to ghetto tech.
But if you got the cash, I say why not.
If you have valuable seeds and don’t wanna mess around this looks perfect.
Looks easy peasy and pretty fool proof to boot.
You could do this and that to copy the process but that looks like BAM!, and your done.
Let’s just say this I would love to have one… 
This was interesting from their page…
We all kinda knew this but it is good to see science tell us it works and why.
Seeds that have sunk are ready to plant, Sinking indicates the hydration, enzyme activity, and change in specific gravity occurring to seeds.
Looks interesting 
Have you tried any of the ideas above yet tho ?
If you do decide to purchase it, please let us know how it goes.
And in the future you can probably make a simpler replication of this kit for much cheaper. I know you can buy some liquid culture powder (I own some) and a simple diluted hydrogen peroxide wash should be enough to clean any beans you have.
It does require a bit more work and research, but I guarantee it would be cheaper with the same results.
Looks like I will have to try some of these techniques. Never had to before. But now it seems I must. Threw some C99’s in water yesterday. Today looks like dead fish floating in aquarium. Am afraid my C99 is gone. Hopefully Ill revive some.
I think I will save up for it and give it a shot. I really REALLY want to get some of those mamba x Bogglegum crosses to grow!
