The Cheap and Efficent LED Lighting Thread

Growroom Design
, ,
#203

ah yeah… the buzzword ‘efficiency’. i’ll bite. this is something marketers use to trick growers into thinking grow lights are superior. they are not. remember people use to grow under hps and cfl bulbs, and even incandescent long ago. not even going into efficiency for those. all i’ll say is, the cheapest worst leds are still better ‘efficiency’ than those options.

if we’re talking retail and you have 10,000w for your lights sure. for the average hobby grower - the 100w panel it doesn’t matter. you’re not going to have substantially larger yields from a 2020 200w panel vs a 2024 200w panel. you might have a little more yield but 200w is 200w. that grower would improve yields by increasing wattage, not by increasing efficiency. if one chases efficiency you’re in the rat race just like cell phones… “gotta have the newest most efficient light or you’re losing out on yields!?”

forest for the trees. :slight_smile:

edit felt like i should give an example. (non affiliate links)

AC infinity light is $100 for 100w light. LED bulbs are $39.99 for 24. Of course you’ll need sockets for 24 light bulbs, and some way to plug them in. this is where it could get tricky because every grow environment will need ‘custom setup’. AC infinity light is plug and play for tent users. with the light bulbs, you’re only using half of them to get up to 100w. even with the sockets and plug-in strips this method is still way cheaper than the grow light, and you still have 12 bulbs at the ready.

#204

im just curious on what your looking at ? any links, just cause even if you say you dont care about efficiency, what if its absurdly skewed.

Presume your looking at the old style 1/2/5w star boards kinda originally based around the cree xpg leds, those were in the 85ish lm/w range when run hard and you had to keep them cool, if the Chinese bead style whatever i cant tell you efficiency.

Or even say the XML chips same thing.

2 Likes
#205

no, they are leds with long leads that you solder onto boards to make lights with. they are actually 21 cents each before tax and shipping. cobs are way too expensive to use for lighting in my case of trying to make them cheap. doesn’t matter how long they last at that price. i can make an extra light for every one i am using so i can swap them out to replace the leds when they go bad. if i make them bigger than i need i can run them at 70% to make them last longer. if it doesn’t work for lighting i will have a bunch of flashlights.

#206

well, vivosun had a sale so I figured id get a small LED setup just to see if I can dial it in at all for some good results… if not it was only $450 something for a 2x4 setup. the lighting was only $178 (2x of the vs1000’s) and should have ~1000 ppfd across the entire 2x4 corner to corner. should be a fun test

1 Like
#207

… The ones you linked are 5mm through hole LEDs, not sure you understand there brightness and how many you would need.

They are maybe 5lm a piece at 120mW. So to make a “200w modern led equivlent” you would first need about 800w worth due to efficiency and then next that would be 6.6 thousand of them but sure solder away or use flashlights.

4 Likes
#208

But, but, It’s all a scam…Lol!

Efficiency…Hogwash!

I am a cheap ass too but if you don’t understand the science/engineering behind what you plan to build, good luck to you all.

While we’re at it, please let me know what rectifier you plan on using and why.

We’re all just trying to help here. No other motive. No offense.
What you will eventually recognize is that most of these ideas have been researched to death by OG members.

Nobody is asking you to buy “their” product. Just giving informed advice. A bargain nowadays.

2 Likes
#209

Boss, this conversation won’t work if you’re not going to do math. Those bulbs you posted claim (which I wouldn’t believe from a no-name brand without some third party tests) 800 lumens at 8.5w, that’s under 100 lumens/watt. Samsung LM301B chips, which are what’s in every cheap decent light now, run up to 220 lumens/watt. We aren’t talking 10% better efficiency, we’re talking over 100% better.

As to this comparison, okay! I can get a 100w light using LM301B diodes for around $60-70. Your bulbs are $40, let’s say I go buy three 4x bulb bathroom vanity fixtures at the Salvation Army for $5/each, that’s $55 and I still need hangers/cord, wire, a power cable, and my time. Doesn’t seem worth it even if they were comparable lights and they’re not.

Edit: I’m not even going to touch spectrum and how those bulbs don’t hit any red or blue peaks or generally give the right spectrum for a full grow cycle with good results. You could grow weed under that but why grow shittier weed than you had to just to be stubborn?

3 Likes
#210

SIL’s do work just aren’t as efficient I’ve used them in the past for great results, they can be an option for those that have alot of fixtures on hand.

And @Dirt_Wizard those lm301b 220lm/w efficiencies consider are before being over driven which all commercial lights are and also before driver losses which Is a auto 8-10% loss so they are closer to the 180ish + lm/w range

And say 16 100w equivelent bulbs is about 240watts a equivalent new style prebuilt with equivalent out put you’d be in the say 150-160w range instead

2 Likes
#211

this conversation isn’t about math it’s about photons. a plant doesn’t care for efficiency it just wants usable light to photosynthesize. the problem is the light coverage relative to the plant. a single led chip does nothing. you have to get leds close to the target OR you have to use lenses. lenses increase photon loss on the edges of each chip. you ever wonder why most good grow lights have 3000+ LEDs per module? hint, it’s because they have to cover a large surface with light.

the key takeaway isn’t the efficiency of the light, but the PLACEMENT of the light relative to the plant.

you must have the timer and all that stuff for the grow light too. the only difference is you need a socket if you choose a bulb option. they make plug-n-play shop lights in warm white too, they’re just harder to find. if you were going to run hps you would need a cool tube or vented hood. i could argue your ‘grow’ led is worse because you additionally have a driver that powers the unit. no driver no light. every light bulb has a built-in driver.

if i wanted to hang my light 4’ from the top of my canopy, i would need an insane amount of lighting. if i want to hang my light 12" from my canopy, i don’t need so much. the par/ppfd will be the same. the thing with lighting is that it’s SUBJECTIVE to every grower. we’re trying to OBJECTIVELY analyze lighting and the plants don’t care one way or the other.

if you love LEDs go outside and turn your brightest led on in full daylight and see what happens. it’s laughable compared to the sun.

#212

Something to watch in regards to Screw in bulbs

1 Like
#213

thanks for the link Mr.Sparkle! it’s the kind of thing i would have done in my youth (growing with cfls :rofl:).

it’s exactly the kind of thing that would help someone on a budget! if i could give any advice to such a person it would be, try to find a way to grow under sunlight if at all possible, it’s free!

edit i also want to be real with people. if you’re expecting to grow dank out of 100 or 200w of led light bulbs, it’s going to be a long shot. you could find some good genetics and get lucky but… you need more power than light bulbs would provide. that’s why i like shop lights. come in 4’ lengths and easy to use.

1 Like
#214

Hi everyone,
What lights are you guys using in veg?

I’m not up to date what’s good out there and I need a nice white’ish LED for a 80x80x16cm tent to start seedlings,root cuttings, grow plants to get them ready for flower.
It should have a dimmer and draw somewhere around 150w.

#215

If you know what you’re doing you can grow in an old shoe.

That can’t be right is it?

4 Likes
#216

yeah, those were what i was looking at first. i ended up with three different colors that cover most of the spectrum and 300 of them total after counting 204 on the vs1000 that was mentioned. i first thought about the through hole leds but you’re right about the efficiency.

that was the first thought, not the final thought after the two hours i spent researching grow lights. as for drivers, pretty sure i don’t need them if i change the ac to dc through the whole room. the only thing i’ll have to figure out is voltage loss and if i want to put one in or one on both sides of the room. this is actually something i’ve done before but not for a grow light. it was easier to make the light work that way, but it has been a while.

i ended up spending about $0.17 each for them and had i been able to buy more than 1000 it would have been $0.11 each. i’m not saying i could out perform vivosun at making a light, or that i could make one cheaper than i could buy one (after a little more thorough research), but it is a hell of a lot more fun making them than buying them. at this point i think i’m good since it was just over $100 for a vs1000 and this one is coming in at $80 if i use all of them on it, or ~$60 if i use 204.

i think i’ll put them in strips over where the plants are gonna sit rather than make squares. should be easier to use what i have on hand that way. it’ll make a good tutorial anyway, and the next idea is making my own grow tents instead of buying them. now that one should be a money saver for sure. but that will be later on when i start the high houses, and it may just end up being separate houses for each variety to avoid cross pollination.

edit: just had another (great?) idea. using computer power supplies to switch the ac to dc at the wall. i can get from 400-850w each and they put out 3.3v on one of the pins. put a potentiometer on each light and i have a working dimmer. i’ve only got about 40 computers and servers sitting in a pile at the farm waiting to be scrapped. i’ve got almost 50 power supplies left over from last scrap run that need to go to nc for a ride and recycle after i keep about a dozen good ones.

1 Like
#217

I’ve met a pal on the discord server of Migro. He’s using domestic LEDs bulbs.

It’s pretty amazing !

https://youtu.be/QzxFoiyYbE0

Here’s his results :

gavin canopy
gavin canopy1800×1012 425 KB

gavin bud
gavin bud4000×2248 560 KB

9 Likes
#218

just so you know different chips = different outputs, most all the tech now adays is in surface mount leds and say the smaller 3mm chips, 5mm through hole style are old old tech and typically only used for display illumination or indicators and even still they have gone to SMD’s now.

Like for reference i could get LM301H evo chips by the 4000+ count for say 16cents cnd a piece which output 8x the output of what you were looking and more plant specific but i would need to make my own circuit boards “do able” and either have a solder reflow oven or a normal oven could work or hot air solder gun.

just saying easier to pick up a couple v1000 and start growing and upgrade as funds allow it, heck there are some slight cheaper amazon options that would work but they come and go.

5 Likes
#219

after seeing that setup that Garcimore posted i agree, if one knows what they’re doing you can do incredible things!

@Garcimore - thanks for posting that! your pal grows some :fire: considering those are led light bulbs. i’m sure he’s happy with those results :slight_smile:

@sfzombie13 - when i was looking into making my own led light in the early days of leds i found that there’s cree ‘stars’ you can buy which are already soldered together. all you have to do is fix it to a heatsink and wire them together which they give you much larger solder pads. don’t need to have machine-like accuracy lol.

as far as drivers go, the problem with using any old ac/dc power supply is you’ll run into issues with wiring. if any singular led burns out, the entire array will go out because of the manner in which you wire them - series vs parallel. you might have 3.3v to work with on each supply how many amps? how many of these do you want to have lined up in your grow area?

i love diy stuff and grow lights were something i could never commit to. made a couple lights but they weren’t very good over time. love the idea for making your own custom tent but lights are a bit more complicated. whatever you do, i hope it works out!!

#220

I meant to write 80x80x160cm

2 Likes
#221

but not more cost effective. right now i have the parts to build a vs1000 for ~$60 with 100 leds left over. it costs ~$120 with shipping for a vs1000. by the time i have bought four of them i would have built eight. i have lots of time and no spare money to put into them. also, the ones i eventually went with are the 3.5mm same form factor as the samsung and i have all the rest of the material needed. i’m also not using pcbs or any other boards since i’m not doing anything but running straight power. the mounts i plan on using should be able to hold resistors fairly easily.

@crunkyeah as for the power, i am thinking about using individual computer power supplies and take whatever output i need and use variable resistors as dimmers. i may not though and just go with the original plan. i can mount them on the wall and run power with cat5 cable to the lights. it would help with heat too, i’ll figure cooling out by the time i need it. as for the complexity, well, it may just end up too complex but at this point i’ve already committed to at least one of them. by the time i work out all the bugs on that one i may as well continue. if it’s too much trouble i have no problem dumping it, you should see the pile of unfinished projects i have.

i know i can do better than this.

20240102_074709_HDR
20240102_074709_HDR2656×1494 276 KB

1 Like
#222

respect. i love the attitude of ‘working with i got’. it sounds like you have everything planned out well or at least have an idea how you want everything. i’ll be happy to see what progress you make with this project.

when i first started growing i would have loved to have an led like that. mine were even worse, and i paid lots for them. :rofl:

you got this. let’s see what you can do!

1 Like