The Quest for Long-Lived, Perpetually-Flowering Auto Strains

Hi there Denizens,

Normally, when growers grow an auto strain, they kill the plant at the first
harvest. This is because enthusiastic growers, keen to maximise their yield,
harvest both the flowers and the leaves. If growers harvested only the
bud, and left the leaves in tact, then the plant is apt to survive the harvest
and then flower again, perhaps immediately or perhaps according to the
photo-period.

It’s theoretically a very interesting question: On what basis will an auto-strain
flower, after the first harvest ? Will it be perpetually flowering ?
Or will it regress to photo-period flowering ?

I’ve just got through reading a dozen articles about the health benefits of
CBD and some of the other terpenes/terpenoids in cannabis. Importantly
for the old, CBD is neuro-protective and neuro-restorative (eg after head
injury or stroke). CBD has already been shown stop the progress, even
reverse the decline, of neurological conditions such as MS, Parkinson’s,
Huntington’s, Alzheimer’s, ALS, etc. And let’s not forget those suffering
chronic pain with rheumatism, or one of the arthritic diseases, spinal
pain, stomach pain… etc. CBD triggers our opioid receptors to provide
an analgesic effect (analgesia without addiction side effects!)
There’s also the bone restorative function of CBD (which is of
obvious utility in treating and reversing oesto-arthritis and bone
de-calcification in the elderly)

Imagine your grandparents, or imagine a friend or relative with a chronic
disease, perhaps one of the dementias, perhaps MS, perhaps arthritis or
rheumatism. Perhaps their energy levels are low, or perhaps they have
a reduced ability to focus on tasks, perhaps they have a limited range of
movement.

What would be ideal for these people, is to provide them with a small
auto-flowering cannabis variety, that might be grown at home, or in a
greenhouse, that has these features:

B that it’s long-lived.[/B]
Currently, growers kill the plant at the first harvest
and hence don’t get to see the plant’s potential for supplying multiple harvests.
And hence they don’t realise that, probably, this plant is not an annual.
This plant could go on flowering, year after year for 5, 10 or 15 years.

B It’s perpetually flowering[/B]
We all know how an auto behaves when flowering for the first time: It goes
straight from the seedling to the flowering stages with no vegetative phase
in between. Imagine an auto cannabis strain that lives for, say, 5 years.
How will the auto-flowering cannabis plant behave after the first harvest ?
Will it flower perpetually ?
Will it revert to flowering according to photo-period ?
(Probably, the answer is that, some will send up new shoots for new flowers
almost immediately, and others revert to photo-period flowering).

My purpose here, is to encourage you all to not destroy your auto strains at
the first harvest. Instead, only harvest the bud, not the leaves, allow the plant
to survive the harvest and then watch to see what happens.
(a) Will your auto immediately begin sending up new shoots for new flowers ?
(b) Will your auto live for 5, 10 or 15 years.

If your answer to (a) is yes. You’re already onto a winner. Everyone will want
seeds from a perpetually flowering plant.

If your plant survives the first year, then again, you’re onto a winner.
Why ? Because the yield, of a plant, depends on the development of it’s root system.
Your plant’s root system will be more highly developed in year 2, than it was in year 1.
And hence the bud harvests are going to be heavier too. Year by year, it will render
more and more bud. Of-course, it will help if you give it more ‘bucket room’.

We can develop auto strains that are:
(1) long lived, ie. multi-year lifespan
(2) perpetually flowering.
(3) And that this task will prove to be relatively easy and very profitable for
those growers that take my suggestion seriously.

The Ultimate Low-Maintenance Cannabis Strain.
If you identify a plant that is perpetually flowering, everyone will want those seeds.
A long-lived, perpetually flowering auto strain can be selectively harvested on an
ad hoc basis every week or so. It would require a minimum in terms of time,
attention and resources. It would be the ultimate low-maintenance cannabis strain.

The same plant could offer up medical MJ for old people, such as your grandparents,
for people confined to wheelchairs, or for people with a limited range of motion, and
for people with cognitive impairments or difficulties in focusing on tasks.

The Life-Span of Auto Strains:
Some autos, perhaps most autos, must carry the genes necessary for multi-year longevity
since, even for F1 auto-hybrids, one parent is short lived and one parent is long lived.
So we might expect 50% of the seeds from an F1, Ruderalis X (sativa/indica) hybrid to
exhibit. That’s based on a naive probabilistic distribution of the genes. In practice we might
see 25% of plants have a Ruderalis lifespan, 50% of plants have an intermediate lifespan, say 5 years,
and 25% have a lifespan of, say, 10 years. In that scenario 75% of autos have a multi-year life-span.

But consider that many autos are crossed to another long lived sativa or indica in the F2 generation.
And perhaps another indica/sativa cross in the F3 generation. Probably, the only trait of interest
to the commercial breeders is the auto-flowering trait. With each new generation that an auto
is crossed with a sativa or indica, multiplies the chances that seeds of this cross, will have multi-year
longevity.

Perpetual Flowering Cannabis Strains:
If you have an auto, that lives, say, 5 years. What are it’s flowering patterns going to be ?
Maybe it will it be perpetually flowering ?
Will it somehow revert to a photosensitive flowering behaviour
(presumably genes inherited from one of it’s long-lived ancestors)

We already have famous examples of perpetually flowering sativa plants on the Island of Reunion.
And perhaps it would be a successful and profitable project to cross Ruderalis with one of the
perpetual weed strains from Reunion.
See the Strain Hunters report on this one:
http://forums.strainhunters.com/index.html/articles/landraces/reunion-island-the-perpetual-weed-r17/

I feel it’s important that growers consider the potential for long-lived and perpetual-flowering
auto strains. Such plants would require much less in terms of time, attention and resources.
The development and distribution of these strains would be a huge benefit to many older people
and many people with medical issues. (And one day, if we’re lucky, that will be us)

The growers/breeders that develop and stablise a long-lived, perpetually flowing auto strain, will
make themselves famous and wealthy. The seeds of such a strain will fetch hansom prices, i’d
like to predict prices of $10 to $20 per seed. Those seeds would be very much in demand, every
‘amateur’ grower would want them.

The utility of these strains to the elderly, the infirm, the invalid and those with chronic diseases
would be immense. We’re not here long. We should try to do some good in the world.

best wishes

cryptolab

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Welcome to Overgrow…

Genetically Modified seeds, priced from $4K-$100K…

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nice theory. but the problem i see is by harvesting the bud you have removed all the growing tips of the plant so how could it regenerate bud or growth without these?

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Good-luck with the pest management tho. :pray:

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Hi GrapeApe,
It’s nice to be welcomed. Thank you :slight_smile:

hi Dewb,

About removing the growing tips:

If you don’t remove all the growing tips, all at once, if you gradually remove
the bud over a period of weeks, it gives the plant the opportunity to
send up new shoots, for new flowers.

For any given auto plant, it is by no means certain, that the plant will
send up new shoots, as the bud is gradually removed. Some plants
will, other plants will not. Naturally, we want to find the plants with
the genes for perpetual flowering. Those genes are the treasure.

I suggest that at least some NL X Ruderalis auto crosses will send
up new shoots; since NL has been observed to send up new flowers
even right at the very end of the flowering season.

There’s also the prospect that a Reunion Island X Ruderalis cross would
also send up new shoots. Since some of those plants are known
to have exhibited the ‘perpetual flowering’ behaviour.

Low Stress Harvesting (LSH)

The specific type of harvesting i’m suggesting is called Low Stress Harvesting.
It’s similar to Low Stress Training in intent. Basically rather than perform the
harvest as one terminal operation, on one date, an operation that kills the plant.
Instead, the harvest is performed bit-by-bit, harvesting only the obviously
ripe parts of the bud, and leaving the ripening buds on the plant.

Low Stress Training (LST)

Some growers practice Low Stress Training to encourage the plant to send up
shoots for buds across the periphery of the plant. This involves tying down
the plant, little by little, such that a branch without flowers becomes the
highest part of the plant. This works surprisingly well to stimulate the plant
to put flowers on peripheral branches.

Now imagine, that you’ve just harvested all the bud from a given side
branch, such that you’ve removed all the growing tips on that branch.
If you now begin to practice LST, tying down branches, gradually,
such that his ‘harvested’ side branch is higher up relative to the other branches.
this encourages this branch to develop new shoots for new flowers. ‘voila !’
Using this technique, even if the plant doesn’t have perpetual flowering
genes, you can extend the flowering period… and obviously, the yield.

Naturally, it would be better if we could rely on perpetually-flowering
genes to send up new flowers automatically. This would make it as
easy and as convenient as possible for elderly & medical home growers.

In Summary

A plant with perpetually flowering genetics, will automatically send up
shoots for new flowers. That’s why these plants are valuable.

You can artificially induce a plant to send up shoots for new flowers,
using a combination of Low Stress Harvesting (LSH) and Low Stress
Training (LST)

best wishes

cryptolab

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Welcome to our home, we hope you make it yours. @cryptolab

At your service!

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That’s very nice of you. Thank you :slight_smile:

The problem I seen has to do with time. If you’ve ever tried to revert a photoperiod back to veg, you know it can take a long time for those new shoots to form. It’s much easier and faster to simply harvest and replant. Now imagine seeds cost the same a heirloom tomatoes, that’s the future of cannabis.

As you know, cannabis is an annual plant; it grows, flowers, and dies leaving behind seed to over winter. Selecting away from that is going to limit other selections such as vigor, potency, or pest resistance. What are you left with, hemp?

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That’s very much going to depend on how you grow. I never take cuts of new plants ever and reveg everything I want to keep, and it takes on average about 2 weeks to start growing new growth. Have one going now that just ended 2 weeks and already have a 4" branch.

That said it is very rare seeing anyone using this method posted online. Most just take cuts and hope it’s gonna be a good strain.

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Not sure if autos would work I don’t see why not but here is in of my post earlier in the year on regeneration:

I don’t recall whether haze mention autos in his book

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Hi Tinytuttle,

A+ Excellent.
Thank you so much for taking the time to post this.
I could do with a new book :slight_smile:

best wishes

cryptolab

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Salutations CryptoLab,
Salutations Dewb,

It turns out i may have an element of observation possibly suitable to feed this discussion…

M’well, then just don’t remove it all… Instead proceed with partial harvest only i figured, for example:

https://s1.postimg.cc/42oqiinjbz/1_-Before_recovering_from_a_cut-_Tiny_Pic_4hqjoj_2011-_Sep-25.jpg

https://s1.postimg.cc/7ir2am5r1b/2_-After_recovery_started-_Tiny_Pic_2889u6p_2011-_Sep-25.jpg

https://s1.postimg.cc/188tqwnuwv/3_-Like_there_was_no_cut_ever-_Tiny_Pic_52c4kx_2011-_Sep-25.jpg

Good day, have fun!! :peace:

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wow imagine that if you could just keep harvesting every 2 months that’d be awesome

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Hi there LegalCanada,

Yes, multiple harvesting was my motivation as well though i quickly realized this would become labor-intensive the 1st time, then plants would eventually refuse to re-grow more of their flowers if that’s “autofem” genetics, i presume… Yet the ability to skip the relatively long preparation period which preceeds each harvest would most likely justify the effort in window-sill self-cultivation situations - given one has a sure hand with an eye to match!

But beyond that it would be a better idea to find out what’s so special about leaving fractional parts of a flower base. I figure it’s related to some hormone-like signaling but that’s some wild speculation of mine. Yet, we do have chemical substances able to stimulate root growth on clones already, right? So…

:relieved:

Good day, have fun!! :peace:

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Hi there Egzoset,

A+ What an excellent idea.

Presumably, there must be a ‘flowering hormone’.
I can’t help wondering if it is available commercially.
Perhaps something that’s sprayed on topically, or
perhaps fed to the plant via the roots, in the water.

I have just googled using the following search terms:
“cannabis flowering hormones”

Interestingly, there is a commercially available
cannabis flowering hormone. It’s called “Florigen”
There’s a thread discussing this here:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=282950

cryptolab :slight_smile:

Salutations CryptoLab,

Hummm… Maybe not really an hormone but still a signalling substance building up locally, like ethylene which is involved in “sex reversal”, m’well if my vague reminescences of long passed readings make any sense at all in this context.

Great, more thought food already! Which is nice IMO. :slight_smile:

Good day, have fun!! :peace:

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