No worries , it’s not the attitude that upsets me but the fact that it may be a sign of my inability to accurately convey thoughts because it seems the exact opposite of what I’m trying to say is what is received. I have no issue being disagreed with but being misunderstood does drive mea little crazy.
I probably should have created a thread titled this is why I now like led lights, it may have set the tone better but I have been having the general conversation on this thread and thought it may be good to show the results of what I had spoken about earlier. I started off in this thread mentioning that I could see all the potential benefits of led lights but had reservations about the spectrums , I said that once I saw a affordable led light with more blue end I would acquire it and put it to the test. I happened to see these utilitech led lights that fulfilled that desire and have provided the expected results. I would be a lot more comfortable now spending the additional money on a more high end led with adjustable spectrums now that they are becoming more prevalent on the market. California light works has a interesting system with extremely programmable spectrum adjustment that can be set to change threw out the cycle to more accurately mimic what the sun does threw out the day and from spring to fall.
On another subject I like your profile pic , I have 50 chickens myself at the moment.
Sorry… it definitely wasn’t entirely clear to me what you were trying to say at first. All LEDs are certainly not created equal - the best full spectrum ones are expensive as hell, but allow full programmability for the wavelengths, like you said. I doubt there’s one perfect one-size-fits-all setting that works for everyone, so the better mid-range ones include a wide range of wavelengths including blue. Sounds like you’ve got a pretty good handle on this - again, I’m sorry for the misunderstanding. Glad you’re starting to see the advantages of LEDs as well as the disadvantages. 
I reuse my promix hp with zero issues . I only feed my plants jacks 20-20-20 lightly each watering and most all of them don’t have issues . I also no longer get pm due to proper ventilation and airflow. I admit I get the odd fungus knat . Of course the water is ph’d to about 6.8 and its city water . If the plant doesn’t hold up she’s culled. 
Right. @Heritagefarms 's “theory” may be right, IDK, but to get a scientific theory, it’s observation, then hypothesis, test the hypothesis, if it’s accurate, test that’s it’s reliably repeatable, and, if it is, ya got a theory. At least that’s how I remember after I finally passed middle school Earth Science Sorry if I’m late and intruding, but I hadn’t seen that mentioned.
Oh yeah, I like leds 
That would be discussed back around Post 252.
Almost no one 
If one led requires higher amounts of certain nutrients, and you DO give them what they are asking for, as opposed to the same clone under a different light happy as pie with what you’re trying to give them, will one plant outshine the other?
Will the now satisfied higher/different dietary needs allow it to excel?
Or is it officially wasted money and effort?
I can imagine someone who has only run LED lights being handed a T5 by someone only to find all their plants are dying from overfeeding then coming here to post that T5s are crap.
Neither one is necessarily the “best” one. Whatever you start with and learn how to use becomes your personal baseline for what is “right” and so anything that deviates from this expectation is “bad.”
Do LEDs cause underfeeding issues? Or do T5s cause overfeeding issues? What if I said the answer is “neither?”
Basically leds are just a little ‘too efficient’ for grow, certainly in the beginning. There are two solutions: either hang the light higher or dim it. Option two is obviously preferable. Whenever i see my fresh cuts struggling, i dim the light some more and the next day they are thriving again.
I start my plants under T5s, then move them under LEDs when the previous crop is mature. Works great for me.
What a fantastic thread @Northern_Loki, I’ll be consuming that info all morning, possibly all day! Thank you!! What a gem.
I used to have a 400w t5 that I lent to a “buddy” that seedlings loved. Really wish I still had it
Call this a Columbo moment:
Than why smoke it? Old habits die hard. Led isn’t the problem, the problem is old fashioned growers that don’t know how to grow with more power and are to stubborn to admit it. You guys think you made up the wheel and now are scared to ask advice to the new growers that double the score. Snap out of it and find the freaking dimmer for crying out loud!
From an objective viewpoint, this thread is great entertainment. I thank you all for your time and participation in this edutainment.
Why smoke it you ask , well that should be obvious but apparently it’s not, probably because you don’t know me so how would you have any idea what I was doing or why besides your own assumptions. I’m not going to review my growing history with you or explain why I have smoked weed grown under various different led lights sense they hit the scene but I will say that ,
I find your comment unnecessary and passively insulting. You are making assumptions about me and my abilities as a grower and have never met me and don’t know a thing about me, that says a lot about you. I’ve gone into depth on this thread explaining my thoughts and statements about led tech and it’s advantages and disadvantages but people like you continue to step up with some simple bandwagon statement instead of adding anything constructive to the subject.
Your not saying anything that has not been said and addressed already so why even bother posting what you did. Do you get some joy from convincing yourself your superior to others with statements like that ?
There is a lot more going on then the use of dimmers or proper canopy to light distance.
I swear some people have such a sensitive ego they can’t handle anything that goes against what they believe and have to belittle those who who question things they are confident about.
I come on here less and less due to people like you and comments like that. I am a professional horticulturalist and have degrees in environmental science , I advise the local master gardeners and make a living growing produce but go ahead and assume I’m a old fashioned grower even though you know nothing about me or my passion for plants, your only hurting your self in the long run by projecting negative energy into the world.
I’ve addressed my concerns with led lights already and now have some that are working great and cost me a lot less then some of the other ones out there that produce inferior results. The tech has come along way at this point and can produce some decent product but the majority of them produced crap weed historically.
I will never understand people like you who spend there time looking for some comment within a conversation they were not part of that they can then isolate and make some smart ass comment about that really serves no purpose and adds nothing productive to the world. I used to enjoy coming on here a lot but more and more I see these passively insulting comments that seem to serve no purpose besides provoking people into some negative back and forth comments that have led to some great members leaving or getting banned for losing there temper.
Anyways long story short please have something productive, mature and intelligent to say if your going to speak to me or about me ,otherwise I would appreciate not being included in your comments in any way.
Great thread, had fun whilst sipping my morning coffee.
so… I have done very little research into lights. all the technical shit just loses me very fast LOL I grew for many many years with mag ballast HPS and MH. Always buying the premium bulbs of the day. Up until last year I ran a 1000W halide with a parabol reflector and a bare space in the middle of the room directly under the bulb.
Worked okay but once the canopy was formed the lowers were blocked and the plants around the outer edges of the room struggled at that distance
So I got an HLG 600Bspec last year to hang in a 7.5 x 7.5 x 8 grow room, replacing the 1000w Halide. That light kicks ass and in that room, at 75% all the plants are getting enough light to thrive. Adapting to the nutrient needs is a must. I found the issues related to P, K and Ca ratios. That and I can;t get my usual General hydro flora series anymore so am experimenting with Hollands Secret. The plants seem to like the slightly elevated P/K relative to N but I’m transitioning to outside and water only soil mix.
I have been flowering all these years with the hortilux super series… the name escapes me… and my personal favorite but very expensive … the NH940 Ultra Ace which runs on the 1000W halide ballast. This was great because I could run one room in veg with the 1000w super halide and then swap the bulb for the NH940 and I didn’t have to move the plants or make changes to the ballast /lamp set up.
So I have a Spider Farmer SF4000 on the way and I’ve been offered an HLG 600R … so this coming fall/winter when I move to my indoor rooms I will get a chance to make some flower runs and do some comparisons. My brother grows some real nice flower under his LED’s and he runs the sf4000’s as well.
I am thinking I like the idea of a short veg sea of green
That is to large of a subject for me to type out atm, depends on a lot of different things like stage of growth , strain , individual plant needs etc
I went from hid to led and never looked back.
I’m 57 lol, og here.
Old Dawg learned some new tricks
I did.
I dig how i play with the light spectrums.
Sub par buds?
Not in my experience.
It’s OK if one prefers one thing to
Another and I can respect one’s
Opinion.
However there is way way way to
To many youtube grow vids
Side by side comparisons
Real research, SHOWN
impericile data to suggest
Hid is superior to Led is not the case.
Then when we add in costs
Bulb replacement, heat,
Cost, it’s a no Brainerd.
If you guys wanna see some sick.shit
Go to nukeheads seeds on youtube
He’s building a water cooled led grow Light system.
But if some prefer a rotary phone
To each their own.