Well I have my doubts about that but if spectrum control and UV etc are important to you I think you could do a lot worse.
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My intent was not to prove led are inferior, if you read my original post you will see I’m getting the best growth under led lights with a veg specific spectrum. The full spectrum led that are heavy red are the ones with the poor growth, the standard t5 6500k are doing better then those but not as good as the adjustable spectrum led with more blue light then red. Funny the only plants that are having deficiency issues are under the heavy red led, the other plants that are in the same soil and are the same type are twice the size with no issues , the soil is not deficient the plant is because of the spectrum of the lights. This is not rocket science it’s pretty simple to see what the variable is and again light spectrums and how they affect plants is commonly understood basic horticulture. You think there cal mag deficient , there actually showing signs of nitrogen deficiency but that’s another subject. Go ahead and explain why they would be deficient in anything when non of the others are and are twice the size in the same size containers with the exact same soil mix. Anyways I’m done responding to all of this it’s starting to go in circles and I’ve already made my point. Grow shop led lights =bad growth - T5 6500k =good growth - utilitech adjustable spectrum led = best growth and ironically lowest power consumption.
If I was to flower under led I would still want to add some uv light or find a bloom specific led with uv included , but for vegging plants these utilitech led lights are kicking butt so far.
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The led lights I just got have adjustable spectrum and there are a few companies making adjustable spectrum led lights now.
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Ok, so they required more nitrogen. Yellow leaves look yellow. 
Either way, you weren’t feeding them properly. As far as why they required more than your other plants, I have no idea why LEDs require more. It’s pretty obvious that they do though, just from reading - you’re far from the only person to notice this. If the simple fact that they require more nutrition makes them bad for you, that’s fine, I’m not trying to get you to use them. I’m trying to explain why you’re getting bad results with them, because I was curious - and in case the other people reading and not commenting on the silly argument are curious. I expect you’d get equal, if not better, results if you took the time and care to feed the ones under the LED properly. If you don’t want to, don’t. No skin off my back. 
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The cheaper LED do have some weird effects on feeding.
Even the better LED affect the requirements of the plants.
For example.
I am pretty sure I have found my Q-boards grows require more “P”.
My kind LED once forced a plant into flower, all the other plants were fine, but one was affected differently.
I think @Heritagefarms has a valid point, I am not sure it is being expressed properly for everyone to understand.
My point is…Not all LED’s are created equal and some can have weird effects on plants.
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It has nothing to do with me not feeding them correctly , the other plants under the other brand of led lights are fine , it’s the spectrum of the lights causing the problem. I don’t see why you can’t understand that but please stop making statements claiming things like I’m not feeding them correctly. I have been growing for over 25 years and very capable of understanding what is going on here. The plants are not performing all of the internal functions required to make use of the nutrients available , sure dumping excessive amounts of fertilizer may correct it but will lead to other problems.
I’m honestly regretting ever coming on here and sharing anything , your insistence on believing it’s something that I have done or not done vs the lights is beyond frustrating and has a lot more to do with you then me. I have explained this every way I can , the evidence is clear as day but you still keep looking for some other cause. If they simply needed more fertilizer because there under led the plants under the utilitech led would not be twice the size with no deficiency’s . You act like I’m saying led are inferior when the best growth per watt im witnessing is under led. What I am pointing out is the led lights with a veg specific spectrum are better for vegging plants then the ones with the balanced spectrum that contains a lot of red , much more then blue. Go ahead and try and argue with any knowledgeable horticulturist that light spectrum doesn’t matter all you are doing is showing your lack of knowledge on the matter while trying to insist you know what’s going on.
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You must not be reading my posts in there entirety I find your manner of speaking to be rather rude and this is not my thread. Why do people assume it’s my thread just because I’m commenting on it, based on that logic it could be your thread. Funny thing is all you have to do is scroll to the top to see who started this thread but that probably requires to much effort on your behalf considering you can’t even read my posts in there entirety, if you did you would see that you are accusing me of things that are the opposite of what was said. I’m not whining I’m sharing results of what I’m experiencing with different types of lights. If you don’t like the nature of the thread you are free to ignore it rather then say some dumb shit over the computer you can’t back up in real life.
It seems some of you are so hell bent on being right you have completely overlooked the fact that I’m using led lights and getting the best growth out of them. Your making statements that are false , you should probably read what I have posted completely before jumping on here and making statements such as you have.
I am running the t5s I have always ran, the led from the grow shop and led lights from utilitech. Why would I go back to T5 when the utilitech led lights are growing better with less watts , your so quick to make accusations when you don’t even seem to comprehend what I’m doing and how I’m comparing things.
I’m not trying to convince anybody that the lights they have been using are not good, that would be your sensitive little ego whining as you accuse me of doing. I’m saying that some led lights are inferior to others and that light spectrum matters to plants. You all can try and argue and talk your way around it but you inability to understand simple concepts and language is not my problem. I think some of you come on here just to be argumentative and make others hate being online. If you don’t like any of what I’m saying or doing you can take your self out of this thread and ignore it. Your making claims towards me that you would know are contradictory if you had actually read and fully comprehended what I wrote.
You comments claiming to know what another person is doing when you have never met me or seen my set up and have no knowledge about my capabilities speaks volumes about you as a person.
I’m exiting this thread now and turning of notifications so if any of you say anything directed towards me just know you are speaking to thin air. I’ve got better things to do then explain every little thing I say to people who can’t even take the time to read everything I have said and then make assumptions and rude statements based on what they think is being said when they are horribly incorrect and taking small bits of a conversation out of context.
I should have just come on here and said your all great and your lights are great and you have no room to learn or improve because it’s all perfect right.
To me it sounds like your whining because somebody has shared information that might conflict with your reality and are apparently to fragile to handle that maturely but instead must resort to passively rude comments that really do nothing to contribute to the conversation. Honestly I find the way some of you are reacting and speaking to be down right pathetic and the signs of a weak cowardly person who has nothing better to do but get online and make opposing statements with out even taking the time to properly inform them selves of the context of the statement they are refuting. If your going to make statements and argue you should at least make sure you understand what your speaking against so as not to sound like a fool.
If this were a reading comprehension test you would be failing miserably, your such good growers but fail to understand how light spectrums effect plants , that’s hilarious, that’s like somebody claiming to be a mechanic and then following up by asking what lug nuts are and why there important 
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May I interject and say that, for a thread dedicated to light spectrum, no one has yet to post a snip of a light spectrum of the products they are using, nor compare two manufacturers data sheets directly.
@Heritagefarms did post a pic of his product box on post 249 so props to him!!
We’d really need to start posting leaf surface temperature, soil temperature, light spectrum (at least as a graph), corrected PPFD using high-end equipment or using known corrected manufacturer calculations such as the ones HLG offers which are specific to their boards (Converting Lux to PPFD & Measuring Lux with Smartphone – Horticulture Lighting Group), medium type, nutrient inputs, strain info, to have a reasonable chance at coming to conclusions.
In general I think it’s fair to say that different parts of the visible and near-visible spectrum penetrate the leaf surface differently, and impact/modulate growth differently. And it’s fair to say that we’re not yet comparing these light spectrums directly. We’re comparing outputs of a black box.
Heat via radiation is a very real driving metric of growth (leaf temp, soil/medium temp).
Degree days is a driving metric.
The amount, and ratio between light spectrum values is a driving metric. The spectrum is continuous but we need a way to integrate area under the curve and dice into comparable chunks. We don’t have that yet.
All of this impacts the rate of uptake of nutrients, the genes being expressed by the individual plants, and the rate of activity of microbial life as a function of heat. Yes your sterile medium fed with salts is teaming with microbial life too! DWC hydro, not so much. But it all matters!
I can safely say it’s all too complicated to parse out in language alone. It’s no ones fault. In the end there’s a lot to learn and experiment with here.
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I apologize for my tone and I’ll be deleting that post. I hope you do what works for you, I know I do. You are correct this is not your thread. I do however find a lot of these arguments against LED’s to be flawed but others have already have pointed that out better than I have.
Hope my bad attitude about this thread didn’t cause you too much grief 
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Thank you , just when I was starting to think all was lost you provide a clear and concise statement regarding all the aspects that I know are contributing to the results.
Now I could jump threw hoops trying to make plants under the grow shop led lights perform better but what’s the point when the utilitech led lights work great with no need for extra inputs or special treatment. They cost less , use less power and are providing better results. I have the ability to monitor leaf temps and light output , there are a number of ways one could monitor the efficiency nutrient uptake but again why when I already have a better performing led in all aspects of performance.
Anyways thank you for adding something positive to the conversation besides the standard basic feed it more bro train of thought.
When you know your nutrient levels and ratios are correct to support plant growth it’s time to look at other possible factors not just dump more stuff on it hoping to correct the problem.
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No worries , it’s not the attitude that upsets me but the fact that it may be a sign of my inability to accurately convey thoughts because it seems the exact opposite of what I’m trying to say is what is received. I have no issue being disagreed with but being misunderstood does drive mea little crazy.
I probably should have created a thread titled this is why I now like led lights, it may have set the tone better but I have been having the general conversation on this thread and thought it may be good to show the results of what I had spoken about earlier. I started off in this thread mentioning that I could see all the potential benefits of led lights but had reservations about the spectrums , I said that once I saw a affordable led light with more blue end I would acquire it and put it to the test. I happened to see these utilitech led lights that fulfilled that desire and have provided the expected results. I would be a lot more comfortable now spending the additional money on a more high end led with adjustable spectrums now that they are becoming more prevalent on the market. California light works has a interesting system with extremely programmable spectrum adjustment that can be set to change threw out the cycle to more accurately mimic what the sun does threw out the day and from spring to fall.
On another subject I like your profile pic , I have 50 chickens myself at the moment.
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Sorry… it definitely wasn’t entirely clear to me what you were trying to say at first. All LEDs are certainly not created equal - the best full spectrum ones are expensive as hell, but allow full programmability for the wavelengths, like you said. I doubt there’s one perfect one-size-fits-all setting that works for everyone, so the better mid-range ones include a wide range of wavelengths including blue. Sounds like you’ve got a pretty good handle on this - again, I’m sorry for the misunderstanding. Glad you’re starting to see the advantages of LEDs as well as the disadvantages.
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I reuse my promix hp with zero issues . I only feed my plants jacks 20-20-20 lightly each watering and most all of them don’t have issues . I also no longer get pm due to proper ventilation and airflow. I admit I get the odd fungus knat . Of course the water is ph’d to about 6.8 and its city water . If the plant doesn’t hold up she’s culled. 
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Right. @Heritagefarms 's “theory” may be right, IDK, but to get a scientific theory, it’s observation, then hypothesis, test the hypothesis, if it’s accurate, test that’s it’s reliably repeatable, and, if it is, ya got a theory. At least that’s how I remember after I finally passed middle school Earth Science 
Sorry if I’m late and intruding, but I hadn’t seen that mentioned.
Oh yeah, I like leds 
That would be discussed back around Post 252.
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Almost no one 
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If one led requires higher amounts of certain nutrients, and you DO give them what they are asking for, as opposed to the same clone under a different light happy as pie with what you’re trying to give them, will one plant outshine the other?
Will the now satisfied higher/different dietary needs allow it to excel?
Or is it officially wasted money and effort?
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I can imagine someone who has only run LED lights being handed a T5 by someone only to find all their plants are dying from overfeeding then coming here to post that T5s are crap.
Neither one is necessarily the “best” one. Whatever you start with and learn how to use becomes your personal baseline for what is “right” and so anything that deviates from this expectation is “bad.”
Do LEDs cause underfeeding issues? Or do T5s cause overfeeding issues? What if I said the answer is “neither?”
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Basically leds are just a little ‘too efficient’ for grow, certainly in the beginning. There are two solutions: either hang the light higher or dim it. Option two is obviously preferable. Whenever i see my fresh cuts struggling, i dim the light some more and the next day they are thriving again.
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I start my plants under T5s, then move them under LEDs when the previous crop is mature. Works great for me.
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