Can this be part of the process that we are looking at…? Does this have any predictability and is it even part of the segregation process for I don’t know how often it occurs. Ahh maybe need to look into it more…?
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You’re hitting on that General or Specific Combining Ability. The ability of a particular cultivar to pass on its traits. Some traits are dominant, some are recessive, some are co-dominant, co-recessive, some need double recessive to show up. Some traits are tied to other traits and some aren’t. It’s up to you to see what’s in there and what is getting passed along, and direct that in a meaningful way to a better line.
A good portion of the “Elite Cuts” are one-off recessives that showed up in a stack of jane doe’s. Because of that, breeding with them doesn’t usually yield the same qualities as the parents due to not being able to double up on the recessive genes like the Elite has… ABC or Freakshow for instance, are recessive strains. If you cross an abc/freakshow into any other plant, you’re gonna get normal looking leaves in every single bean until you F2 them, then you’ll see those abc/freakshow leaves come out.
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Then going back to the segregation part, I am wondering if you are making f1’s to cross with f1’s to find the segregation in the f2’s; wouldn’t it be possible to self the f1 and look for segregation?
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Does it hold that transgressive segregation (tgs) is a recessive characteristic depending on the type being bred? What is dominant in one type might be recessive in another. Afghan dominates the Indica(Thai strain)?
When looking at the Afghan variety it is short bushy and has a CBD:THC of 1:1 and the Thai/Lao var Indica is THC:CBD 100:1. Thai are tall and high THC ratio which from observation is recessive to Afghan drug varieties?
Key Terms
- linkage: the property of genes of being inherited together
- recombination: the formation of genetic combinations in offspring that are not present in the parents
Is this what you would be describing HA?
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Linked Genes Violate the Law of Independent Assortment
Although all of Mendel’s pea characteristics behaved according to the law of independent assortment, we now know that some allele combinations are not inherited independently of each other. Genes that are located on separate non-homologous chromosomes will always sort independently. However, each chromosome contains hundreds or thousands of genes organized linearly on chromosomes like beads on a string. The segregation of alleles into gametes can be influenced by linkage, in which genes that are located physically close to each other on the same chromosome are more likely to be inherited as a pair. However, because of the process of recombination, or “crossover,” it is possible for two genes on the same chromosome to behave independently, or as if they are not linked. To understand this, let’s consider the biological basis of gene linkage and recombination.
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I have to correct you here, as an avid mutant cannabis aficionado! Some of the mutant strains currently known are XX-linked recessive. If a female mutant is used in the cross, the F1 males will all show some sign of abnormality. If you want to read more up on it, here’s a thread discussing it.
Very interesting stuff! Not like cannabis breeding isn’t it’s own world of craziness… let’s throw mutants into the mix. 
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i found this guy that is crazy smart on this stuff and i was talking to him about a ‘fast version’ project. It sort of applies to this topic so here’s what he says.
generally speaking hash cultivars will have a functional cbd synthase while sativa will not(it becomes a pseudo gene from non use) the main functional difference between sativa and indica is whether there is a functional cbd present. this is because theyve found that the 2 synthases are not on the same locus. meaning they will independently sort. its not a one or the other situation. so sativa(funtional thc/nonfuntional cbd) is the desired chemotype, but the possible chemotypes in a sativa x indica f2 are-
funtional thc/functionalcbd
functionalthc/nonfunctional cbd
nonfunctional thc/functional cbd
nonfunctional thc/nonfunctional cbd
cactus said “it is possible for two genes on the same chromosome to behave independently”
according to this guy, yes. but a selfed female will only show so much along the lines of abnormality. honestly i don’t like abnormal, except for novelty purposes. I want good whole vanilla genetics, all stable and slightly improved upon. This extreme pheno stuff is more for the cannabinoid/terpene profile more than “look at this mutation!” you want the plants’ profiles to be manipulated, not the leaf/stem/flower stuff. That’s why i posted the trifoliate/triploid. It’s in those polyploids you can get really fun, complex cannabinoid/terpene profiles. yes the 3 branches are cool looking, or the freakshow phenos, but what we want to stay focused on is the new exotic terpene and cannabinoid profiles we can get from breeding with these abnormalities.
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Now, i didnt suggest it was detrimental…just that the core benefit may have been forgotten about.
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You don’t do open pollenation if you want to isolate trats such as potency yield flavor and colors. Those traits are easier to lock down in a controlled pollenation of 2 known plants. Open =wild. Lot of variation. Different males hitting different females. Herms in field unnoticed and whoop there it is. A bunch of Acapulco going both ways and straight trash after 6months and herm babies (seeds) everywhere.
My personal opinion is Id rather have seed from plants that are known. Momma does this consistently so I’d hit her. With what? Either a chosen male or reversed known female. I’m a little lost on the topic. But I think it’s asking why open pollenation doesn’t provide the exact traits your trying to lock in.
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This is an interesting read that kinda correlates what you’re saying.
Genomic studies of several new synthase variants have been recently carried out (Weiblen et al. 2015; Grassa et al. 2018; Laverty et al. 2019; Gao et al. 2020). Initially, CBDAS and THCAS were identified as co-dominant alleles at a single locus where BT/BT and BD/BD homozygous plants are THC and CBD dominant, respectively. However, recent advances in genomic studies have suggested the involvement of multiple linked loci harboring alleles at different loci. Weiblen et al. proposed this observation based on several factors such as the presence of diverse THCA and CBDA synthase sequences in test samples, expression pattern, and loci position on chromosome map (Weiblen et al. 2015). Onofri et al. suggested that THCA/CBDA variation is due to sequence variations at the B T and (or) B D loci (Onofri et al. 2015). However, Grassa et al. reports that divergence at the CBDAS loci is mainly responsible for determining the THCA:CBDA ratio of cultivars, resulting in cannabinoid profile differences between marijuana and hemp (Grassa et al. 2018). Interestingly, variation in gene copy number of THCAS and CBDAS has also contributed to varied cannabinoid content in cultivars and is responsible for phytochemical diversity, which helps with plant adaptation (Vergara et al. 2019).
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There is lots of information here, but nothing is like having first hand experience about the matter.
Some guys are going to miss out on a lot of good stuff as they wait on the bigger kids to tell them what they can and cannot play with.
If they had the answers, everyone would know how it’s done and we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
There are guys who are creating consistently producing plants with repeatable results… but for some reason most guys are following the advice of those who are unable to produce with this type of results.
So if I wanted to learn how it’s done, I would follow the advice of the man that’s doing it instead of listening to those who say it can’t be done. There are many plants producing consistently. Their ability to produce is why they are in so many crosses.
My advice is to grow a few of those strains so you can figure out how they are able to do what they do. Then experiment with them to learn how they pass their genes.
That puts us right back at experience. Experience is priceless.
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Experience is the teacher of all things.
Julius Caesar
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Good article supporting Bt/Bd heterozygous condition for alleles controlling ratios. I like how the paper said that the amount of Cannabinoids can change depending on environment but the ratios don’t.
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I also found it interesting they said they could see the ratios in 4 week old leaves in veg. You’d know which are the strongest without even having to flower them out 
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- heterozygous alleles
- heterozygous alleles
- reduction of heterozygous alleles through multiple generations of inbreeding
Bonus:
4. you need numbers to ensure you don’t lock in negative traits while you attempt to secure the traits you want (or also with selection of multiple recessive traits)
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I wonder if trying to tie all the traits you want up in one plant is possible. 1 trait 2^2 , 2 traits 4^2, 4 traits = 256 combos and if we are looking for recessives then you need “Numbers”!
But we all know this
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I read a blog recently of a guy who was trying to produce a micro dwarf multiflora tomato (3 recessives). 1 in 64 plants stacked all 3… pretty cool. In that case you can determine dwarf from seedling, and then further find determinant in young plants, and then 1 in 4 had multiflora when clusters formed. Much easier if you can determine traits earlier in the lifecycle.
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Awesome need to read this bro! Link?
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Found it:
Pretty nice read. 
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Just look at Eric and Julia Roberts.
Same parents,
Different bag appeal,
only one has sparkle. 
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