Yes.
Because that ugly piece of shit could be a mite repellent monster.
It may not look like it now. But in 10 gens you may be glad you kept it that first round 
Have you ever noticed, when guys look for testers, yeah theyâll want a couple dudes with dialed setups. But what they want is alllll kinds of environmental conditions. Ins, outs, hot cold wet leaks whatever. That speak much louder than perfect rooms.
Yeah i test outdoor for one guy stuck indoorâŚbut arent we preserving in f2, f3âsâŚweâre not trying to target some traits are we?
We want ole mom and dad P1âs kinda somewhere in those kidsâŚforeverâŚthatâs the goal isnt it?
Ah. I see the confusion.
I assumed we went back to your project.
With a preservation, f2 youâd only cull the true bastards. Remember, you kept the ugly tanky plant in the first round. So even tho the second time around you cull the ugly ones who may have some favorable genes, the princess 2 plants to the left may also have the gene.
So run all males first run, cull second runâŚ? Ah yes, cull in f2âs to keep things high and hard
Yup.
You want to have access to everything, so first run is a no cull.
Once the genes are all in game, you can start to shamelessly cull bastards. The good genes are still in game, well until you kick them out by mistake 
hence the taking your time over many generations and breed a bit wider.
Lemme dig a Tom hill quote haha
Got itâŚperfect.thnxâŚsay thnx to mithridate everyone 
I pray you tent guys feel this joy one day. My heart bleeds for you. Im an outlaw in texasâŚbut im not a stupid outlaw. I cant run these numbers yet, but itâs good to get the info nowâŚand im smarter than i was yesterday, gotta love that
I can fit 64 plants in a 2x4 tent split in two. So tent guys, if they really want to, can breed something worth while if they put in the time and effort 
@Mithridate - I too run large plants numbers in my 4x2 tent that has 2 levels. Itâs a veg tent though⌠are you flowering 64 plants in your 4x2? Thatâs what Iâm wondering. No way could I flower my babies in there!
I keep 18 Lagkitan landrace on the top:
On the bottom I have 25 random mutants and a couple of regular canna species. From left to right:
Hereâs a can of worms for everyone to have a think on (in regards to the outcrossing vs selection topic):
Breeding cannabis is a lot of different things to different people. As a mutant guy, I am required to do a certain amount of selecting (line breeding) based on the leaf morphology I desire. For those who donât know, a stable mutant can be outcrossed and the leaf shape maintained if the mutant cross is inbred to the second (F2) generation. In this generation, based on selection and randomness from nature, there will be a percentage of specimens that maintain mutant leaf shape, and some that are normal cannabis leaves. Itâs really anyoneâs best guess how all the chromosomes align and what traits get passed to what offspring⌠if you look at combining multiple mutant species together the punnett squares can get quite crazyâŚ
The point I wanted to make is that depending on what the individual is trying to do, there are different breeding techniques for everything. The world is too big to say thereâs only 1 way of doing things. Itâs not an apples vs bananas debate. Itâs observing how apples, bananas, oranges, pears, plums, etc etc all interact and benefit each other.
If youâre trying to preserve a landrace line open pollination may be the way to go; I canât say because Iâm an indoor guy. If youâre working with autoflowers, thatâs a whole different story. Thereâs so much going on with cannabis in our world today that itâs anyoneâs guess to see whatâs âbestâ. Iâm sure a 30 year veteran breeder will tell you quite a bit of things which newbies wonât know until they get into it. Iâm sure someone with a couple plants thinking about making seeds is going to have a totally different outlook than someone who knows their lines and expects specific crosses to offer specific traits etcâŚ
One last thing I wanted to throw in there is we all have different means. I have 24 sq ft of space to work with, so I donât have the ability to run larger numbers. I have to select based on my means. I know people who can grow outdoors but indoors is too risky. It all depends on our situations on what we can/should do.
My random two cents.
Is that ducksfoot you got?
I have every species in there except for Multileaf at the moment. I have a Duckweb IBL (which is a line bred ducksfoot) as well as Giant Pur Pur phenos which are Duckfoot rather than lanceolate. I should mention that the Duckfoot-GPP are entirely different from the Duckweb.
Color me jealous
Donât be! I have big plans to hybridize each line separately into their own wonderful lines, as well as combining the mutants together to find new leaf morphologies to explore and fall in love with. I plan on offering them to the public at prices that people will actually be able to afford. Iâm thinkinâ like $1/seed at the moment. Iâm not a greedy guy. My biggest obstacle is that I donât have much space. Trying to work on getting outdoors next year with around 10 plants.
May take the next 5 years for me to do, but Iâm set on it!
I got burned on here for calling something triploid without knowing if it wasâŚso went and found someone that knew the stuffâŚnow i know i have a trisomic karyotype of an aneuploidâŚwhat are those things you got tho?! Lol
A trisomic kary-what??.. hahah⌠Well honestly Iâm not sure! I have so many different babies that are all slightly different from each other that I honestly donât know exactly what I have. Need more time.
Hereâs a serious question for anyone though, talking about inbreeding, outcrossing, etc. Letâs say you have an F2 Duckfoot (which isnât going to be as stable as an IBL) and cross it to an F2 ABC. How will those progeny differ compared to a Duckfoot IBL x ABC IBL?
Hereâs another: Letâs say you want to combine 2 seperate lines. In the initial F1 crossing you can do 1 male and 1 female. OR you could run say 10 of each, 10 males and 10 females (1:1 vs open pollination). Are the progeny from the first batch likely to differ from batch 2 in any way that we can distinguish?
It comes down to chromosomes, how many complete sets, blah blahâŚcan have 20-29 itâs a karyotype of an aneuploid, if it has 30 itâs triploid. Urs literally could be triploid and we wouldnt know it. Could be even weirder. Sorry other question leaving open.
I am! I use 5" pots, 8 per tray, 4 trays per shelf.
The timing can be tricky but I try to flip them so they finish at 20-22".
Packing it that tight is usually reserved for when I look at a line I know nothing about so I donât sacrifice too much room in case itâs all bunk.
Or emergency seed runsâŚ
Nice mutant collection by the way 
Wow! Thatâs incredible that you flower them in there! I would not be able to do that with my species. They stretch too much in flower to be able to cram them like that. You must have good lighting for them all. Thatâs truly incredible! Would you mind posting pictures of your trays and setup? With my setup Iâm using 6" pots but because of the PVC structure I made and the plastic drip dray on the top level, Iâm not able to run nearly the same amount of numbers as you are. I think Iâm at a 12 plant limit on each level if each pot is a 6". It looks to me like you have skinny pots too. I have thick plastic ones.
I assume with those numbers you have a veg area where you take clones?
I really have to say Iâm impressed though. Youâre one of those people that make me think what Iâm doing is rookie status. You really know your plants well to be able to cram them in there like that and have them all look like little frosty buds of goodness!
Thanks!
Yeah, I try to stay away from anything too equatorial⌠when I encounter the odd lanky specimen that flies right past 20" I just break it in half and flower her sideways between two rows 
For lighting I still use good ole t5s, 7 tubes bank per shelf. They get the job done just fine.
Thatâs what the setup looks like sitting empty
Oh, and I start 100+ in 3", 18 per tray and go from there.
Yes. Clones get a separated diyâd baby tent, I keep them in 3" for the duration of flowering, and they often hate me for it lol
If I find something real nice, that gets moved to another location to be treated like royalty for dialage.
No worries, everybody can do it. Itâs a bit fast paced and labor intensive but worth it very much in the end. A few runs like that and youâre almost guaranteed a couple top notch plantsâŚ
Itâs all about efficiency⌠the light will be on anyway? Might as well cram em in thereâŚ
Youâll have to mix nutes anyway⌠might as well mix more 
(I didnât quote you for each thing Iâm responding to, so I hope itâs not too painful to read)
