I love that you want to learn and want to understand. Thats how we evolve cannabis further as a community!
Well most Plant species are hermaphrodites or monoecy. Around 94% of all plants on earth fall into this category. The simple answer is that these species doesnt suffer from inbreeding in the same manor as dioecious species does.
Yes its a good thing that cannabis have high mutation rates, thats why we got so many varietys and thats why it can survive in all corners of the world.
If you have an inbreed cultivar and plant millions of that cultivar, the next generation will become less inbreed because of the increase in diversity produced by mutations. Problem with cannabis is that no one in west farm drug cannabis at these scales.
Using limited males or even just a single male, is to lock in certain traits, not because of some other reason.
If I wanna make Grapefruit F2âs I need a female AND male that both smell like grapefruit. Use the wrong male and you need at least one more breeding event to fix it than if you had chosen the correct one at the start.
Only way to know itâs correct is to freaking look at it!!! smell it, touch it, smoke it, taste it. Figure it the f out. Then use his pollen on some things, make seeds, and grow those out to see if everything he had was passed on to the progeny. No luck, try another male. all the luck? success. go breed with the chosen girl(s) and hope they pass on their stuff too.
The best looking plants donât always breed the best. Sometimes the scraggly runt in the back puts out the best offspring. Testing.
I swear its like some people think the male is some blank canvas with no way to discern anything at all.
He has trichomes
He has smells
he has stem rubs
He has structure
He puts out flowers
ALL THE SAME AS THE FEMALES! Theyâre just little balls instead of brachts. They grow out of the stem at THE SAME PLACES THE FEMALE BRACHTS DO.
This isnât really that complicated.
Its not like the male half of the species is totally separate dna. Itâs the same DNA in the females putting out buds as it is in males putting out balls. The dna that codes for trichomes, structure, stem rubs, density, all that we use to divine plants with are not sex dependent. Thatâs WHY you can reverse plants.
If you REALLY wanna know what your male looks like, go grab some Florel and reverse him to a girl and see what you get.
If I was to preserve something I would use ALL plants, do a seed increase and only cull once numbers permit it.
If Iâm breeding with the goal of bettering a line, Iâm looking for the outliers, the 1/64, the 1/1094 plant.
Iâm sure the same ratios apply to the male plant.
Finding a truly spectacular female is something bordering the miracle, and thatâs with the ability the smoke the end product. Selecting a male thatâll give you the right high, the right taste and resistance to pests, stressor etc is equally magic haha
Once you leave mandalian genetics and move into traits ruled by 4, 5 or 6 genes and you want say 5 of such traits locked down the probabilities are shitty as best.
So you do what you can to better the probabilities. One step at a time. If the weed gods are on your side, your perfect plant will be 1/500 instead of the original 1/798000 after a few generations.
Thatâs exactly what Iâve been saying, and exactly why it makes no sense to me to select against/for all those traits as expressed in male form. Without fully knowing how sex expression affects all the various traits that make up a strong desirable plant, whatâs the advantage gained in selecting traits as expressed by males? Why wouldnât one apply the most selective pressure to the females if those traits can be most directly assessed?
dude I assure you after many of my 100-500+ runs of a single seed variety they do
thatâs like having Selma Hayek and crossing her to one of the the little people big world cast
Your gonna get a lot more dwarfs then you would have choosing a more fitting male
And the only way to know what a good male is, is to run progeny
Thatâs why I like making fems for quick personal hunts less of a guessing game
Generally when running 100+ seeds I keep about 3-4 males and pollinate keepers with them separately
Only until after running each of the 3-4 sets of progeny do I know which was the right choice
Itâs a game of instinct and luck without full genetic PCR testing and being able to root out what the expressions look like in a data set
And just because a male pairs well with plant X doesnât mean it will pair well with plant Y
Do you know how fucking hard it is to keep fruity pebble terps in outcross
Not very easy
I just want to point out that everyone here with experience says the same thing. I thought this thread was about achieving potency through breeding and not if one should or shouldnt be serious about male Selection. I can from first hand experience say that a frosty male will give you a higher degree of frosty offspring and it make sense⌠The trich production is the same genes in female and male.
If you want offspring with better branching, choose a male with a good branch structure. If you want de se flowers with lots of weight. Select a male with dense flowerâŚ
Its still a guessing game but at some degree you can already see what the genetics have to offer in the selected male.
Thatâs not what Iâm saying at all. The question was: what is the purpose of a male cannabis plant? In my mind males are there to breed with females and continue evolution. Simple as that. LonelyOC and I got into a friendly debate over the purpose of the male. My opinion is males are there to mate with females. Without the male, females will perish. They canât do it all alone!
I agree with your statements about males in general and breeding with them. However I donât agree with feminizing. I believe thereâs going to be repercussions down the road.
In the spirit of the original intention of this thread hereâs a question: In the interest of potency wouldnât we be better off using ONLY feminized lines as this where our flower comes from. You could keep outcrossing to different females to keep the line vigorous. If we kept doing this for 20 separate outcrosses, wouldnât we eventually lead to something super potent? What effects would be had from not having XY chromosomes present for 20+ generations? Anyone have any ideas?
First and fore most. Fem seeds(made with STS) will not ruin cannabis in any shape or form, as long as we stick to the same rigorous test as we do with reg seeds. So you can believe how much you want, it doesnt make it a fact or true. So be careful passing it of to other people as facts or what not. Believes are Believes, just like in church.
Yes fem lines are good to use If you hunt potency and its been stated in this thread over and over. But keep outcrossing will not bring you any closer to potency If you are running a low nr of plants.
Poly hybrids are like slot machine. There are people who hit the jackpot, but it wont be you.
Think about how many million poly hybrid seeds that have been popped and how few âElitesâ there is.
You only get hybrid vigor from crossing two stable lines, poly hybrid does not have hybrid vigor. The amount of hybrid vigor is declared by how geneticly different the both parents are and how stable the lines are.
An example of this is Gorilla Glue RIL. This line was made by stablize a version of the mother and by stablize an outcross of the mother. When these lines are inbreed like this, crossing these together will induce hybrid vigor into the line. This line gave abit of vigor because both lines had a silimar genetic make up. But the vigor is enough to find better offspring then the mother and better offspring then most poly hybrids out there.
So outcrossing isnt the answer. The answer is selecting, stablizing, selecting, stablizing⌠And so on. This is a time consuming task and you can only do as many crosses before you grow old and die. Thats why its so important that as a grow community we are working together, doing collabs and trust that every breeder knows the process and the protocols of breeding. Knowledge needs to be widespread and I try to help as much as possible.
I totally agree about the selecting and stabilizing, and that itâs just as much about the things we are unintentionally selecting for as it is the things we are selecting for intentionally. Itâs not not necessarily that the males are more important than the females, but that theyâre equally important and arenât often treated that way in modern breeding efforts. The females arenât really either, not as much as they often could be. And when I say males in this instance, that goes for traditional regular makes as much as it goes for reversed plants turned male. Itâs all about the genetics inside both parents and how they will recombine.
Seeing that something is great is one thing, but testing against the possibility that something may be better to ensure itâs greatness is something entirely different. Testing itâs weakness down the line figuring out itâs junk and going back to a previous point in the work is part of it. How do you know what a home run feels like if youâre not striking out occasionally? Thatâs how feel about it all. Itâs less about the knows and easily seen and more about the unknowns and whatâs hiding in the genes. Gotta, and when I sat gotta I really mean we get to search through the progeny.
I donât have an academic background so the things I say arenât necessarily hard facts or anything, theyâre how I feel with what Iâve learned so far. Trying my best to keep an open mind to learn and grow my knowledge and understand. Much love
@Pannonian
I donât pass out anything Nympho related unless $$$ are involved. No one on OG has a drop of Nympho geneticsâŚ. And I damn well didnât trade any for that crap thatâs being pass around here.
They asked for autos so I gave them autos⌠not Nympho autos. Silly rabbit. I do this for payâŚ. No payâŚ. No hayâŚâŚ ask him what did he pay me for it.
Business is about finances.
And i donât do anything cannabis related that isnât beneficial financially. @LonelyOC so stop acting like you donât see this crap. And I say what I want to say. If you donât like it. Block me. And stop making comments aimed at me. Get a life. Get on your game. And you some business. And that goes for you and anyone else.
The only way anyone knows what my bud smokes like is if we have met upâŚ. Because I donât pass out beans of it out. Not here or on any other forum. But I have no problem meeting up and smoking with anyone.
I have made that statement several time.
So stop whining. When I get ready to release something Iâll make an announcing post.
You guys have best of luck on your projects.
