I haven’t made a single post trying to sale any one anything. And you know that, because you would have pulled it up nor had a reason to discipline me.
And because of that rule is why I don’t discuss my gear and the reason no one has any. Therefore I’m very respectful to your rule. Peace
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I would love to see some proof that supports this claim. I will not agree that STS inducing females is ‘ok’ for cannabis. Does it work? Sure. However, in nature you would never see STS induced females. How can we say it’s ok when there’s literally no proof over the known existence of cannabis that this is the case? If your proof is ‘some breeders have had success breeding stable potent fems’ then think about this.
How far back in time do we have to go before feminizing a strain wasn’t a thing? A Google search says Dutch Passion figured it out in the 90’s. We have ~30 years of feminizing. Now… of all this feminizing going on… how many of them have been so freaking inbred with females that it hasn’t seen a Y chromosome in 50+ generations? Show me a feminized line which has had no presence of male DNA for 50 generations and when I see a healthy plant from all those females with no males, I will consider changing my stance. *** I put 50 generations because over the 30 years 50 generations is entirely possible, especially considering those with the means to use STS are likely flowering indoors ***
What do we know? We know that in nature, males have been pollinating females for THOUSANDS of years. We also know that under certain conditions, males and females can mutate (herm) to protect the species. In the 90’s all of a sudden someone discovers they can make feminized seeds by forcing a female to mutate. Does this sound like the kind of thing that we can go… “oh yeah nature has done it this way for thousands of years but you know what? We figured out that we don’t need males anymore. As long as we keep outcrossing all these females, the female offspring will be vigorous. We should be fine.”
More confusion here. You either have outcrossing or inbreeding. There is no other way to breed. So if outcrossing isn’t the answer you’re telling me that inbreeding is? Isn’t that what selecting and stabilizing is? Inbreeding? Again, I ask for proof of the healthy female plant with 50 generations of female only lineage. It doesn’t exist because we need males to pollinate females.
LonelyOC, I sincerely hope I don’t come across as a jerk for opposing your views. I’m constantly learning every day and seeking information about cannabis and breeding since growing is my passion and my goal is to become a good breeder. I have decades of life ahead of me if I play my cards right so it’s definitely in the cards if I learn the right information.
The more I read this thread the more I want to listen to the advice: “Don’t listen to any advice on breeding.” 
Just sayin’
EDIT - Did some research and there’s a study out that says cannabis is 28 million years old. Crazy. I thought it was just thousands of years.
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I agree 100% with this statement. Blaze your own trail because you have just as good of a chance as anyone else to produce something spectacular and unique.
Keep at it brother. Have realistic goals. And any improvement is an improvement.
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@Blue-Tri - Thank you for the kind words, and keep rockin with your stuff too. I wish you the best!
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Thank you bro.
I have gotten a little further. I was doing some sampling and found some a bit nice than the ones that I originally planned to use. So I’m going to redo it with those as the lead plants.
So right back at it. Always looking to make improvements. And Not looking to jump the gun and rush anything. I could settle, but that’s not my style. I’m ocd and a part of my ocd is that I’m a perfectionist as well. Do it your way brother. Keep at it to your standards because there will always be someone there to criticize.
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As someone who also has a perfectionism OCD I just want to say, sometimes stop and smell the roses. Enjoy the fruits of your labor. While we’re always looking for improvements, never forgot to cherish what’s right in front of you.
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Dutch passion used rhodelization to produce their feminized stock, only later did they use sts.
The sts technique comes from a botanist HY Mohan Ram, Induction of Fertile Male Flowers in Genetically Female Cannabis sativa Plants by Silver Nitrate and Silver Thiosulphate Anionic complex Theor. Appl. Genet. 62, 369-375 (1982)
hyb/eliteXelite was the first to sell sts spray, while for a hefty markup. Countrymon and fet wrote up the first sts protocol after some trial with different concentration to teach everyone how to do it for cents.
According to Chimera, the first to post Mohan Ram paper on a grow forum was Baudelaire on OG. Daaammn bro
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This is the way I look at it from a common sense point of view.
The claim is that we would lose something by not breeding with males. That would mean that the gene only exists in males. But that means by default if we are focused on females that the gene in question is no applicable to females. If something is applicable to females it already exists in them.
Males are just natures tool to reshuffle genes. It’s the answer to how do we get dna from point a to point b. A delivery system.
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STS mimics a hormone in the plant which control sex. The make up of DNA doesnt mutate or get ruined because of STS. So your understanding of how plants work sounds like its based of how animals work. I can safely say that plant reproduction and animal reproduction doesnt use the same type of logic. You have to remember that majority of cannabis lifecycel there where no females or males, only cannabis. When people talk about XX or XY in plants, its not the same as in animals. As I said before the line is hair thin between a monoecious or dioecious. If I remember correctly its only 6 genes responsible for dioecy in cannabis.
If you want to know more about this topic, you can use google. For me this matter is over. Im happy to help but i wont freaking convert people that believes shit when it comes to science… Im not a preatcher… I just want to help, and I hope atleast other people can take that information and do something good with it, since you dont even want to listen and learn. Why would i ever comment on a post where you ask questions ever again? Its quite pointless and alienating to throw a statement like that while asking stupid questions where the answer is a googling away…
Pz 
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My logic for how plants work is based on what I’ve learned about plants, not about animals. I used animals as an analogy for what nature does. In nature, females don’t pollinate other females. You can have a monoecious plant pollinate another monoecious plant, but a dioecious female will never breed with another dioecious female. The fact is, cannabis has been dioecious for a long time. This means you need a male AND a female. Just because we’re human we think we can play creator-mode and create females from females. Your claim is that STS isn’t mutating DNA and I will agree with you. There’s nothing wrong with STS. What is wrong, is thinking we can remove males from the equation since we can use STS. My point this entire time has been and will be, we need males to pollinate females. STS can’t be used in a way where we remove males completely from the equation.
That’s a shame. The community could use people with an education more than it can use people like me. It’s unfortunate that you’ve allowed me to put a bad taste in your mouth so you don’t even want to type out a response. I never asked you to convert me into something else. All I asked for was answers to questions. Since you’re retracted from the conversion I will do as you say and consult Google.
I can’t seem to find things sometimes. Maybe I’m not using the right search terms or maybe it’s called something that I don’t know the name of. That’s why I come onto the forums sometimes because people will post little nuggets of wisdom that I can research and learn from. I don’t have the means for education, this is the best I got. Sorry if I offended you.
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Well im not the best at english and I write on my phone, i Google everything i was to be as accurate as possible because the knowledge in my weed brain sometimes get hazey about the details. So i put alot of effort and time into my posts. This is because i do want to spread knowledge. But when the person i write to make a comment like this:
Do you think i want to keep up the effort and time to answering you questions? Questions you can simply google? We are all adults and that shit aint respectful…
Edit: this is a good source of info to understand the different states of gender in plants and how dioecy works.
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Do you think i want to keep up the effort and time to answering you questions? Questions you can simply google?
No I don’t. Sorry I’ve bothered you. I’ll result to google from here on out.
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any inbreeding do you mean IBL?
doesn’t someone have to take something at least 5 gens to be a ibl? or is it 9
That’d be awful hard to do in a year
And on your statements regarding sts etc
it’s just a tool at our disposal man
there’s nothing inherently wrong with it
there’s no female cannabis plants screaming death to the cannabis genome patriarchy
this skunk spray male I have j might be reversing the male and knocking it up with itself… whatcha think about that lol
Also for all those saying males are an unknown
Isn’t there a product called ephelon or whatever where you can reverse the make see what it does in a female expression and is even safe to smoke
Just food for thought
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Yeah, Florel is a name brand version.
Reversing males is actually pretty interesting. If the mendel chart is accurate you should still get 25% True Females(xx) and 25% Super Males (yy).
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As you pointed out, STS is a tool and its a good tool for alot of things. As you also points out, it doesnt matter If you use STS or males If you follow a breeding protocol…
So far we are both agreeing with each other 
Cannabis gets 10 chromosomes from P1 and 10 from P2. Im sure you already know this. Inbreeding is when the genetics on both side of every chromosome pair is very close. This cause the offspring to be very stable. They all look like the same plant or have very little variety. As you pointed out this can be done by running F lines until they become stable, you can also use backcrossing(also called cubing by DJ Short) or you can self.
If you want to achieve inbreeding as fast as possible, selfing is the method and for an exprinced breeding it takes 3 to 4 generations of selfing to achieve high amount of inbreeding. This takes about 1 year indoor, around 3-4 months for every gen.
I want to point out that ihave nothing against people using males. Ive done it alot of times with Great success. What ive been talking about is that males are wonderful in nature but not necessary in the hands of humans. Thats it.
So far i still believe we are on the same page here…
Yes you can reverse males aswell and get seeds out of them. They will produce more males then females in their offspring.
@HolyAngel The YY seeds will never produce, its a bumner though since it would be interesting to see how they would grow out!
Pz out my fellow growmies
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Hey man, hope your feeling stoned. Always good to hear that someone found the real fire…
On the real tho man. I can completely get you not wanting to discuss the genetics or post a picture of your plants for your own protection. And I respect that.
But how about one dry bud photo. We surely would not be able to tell the genetics from a dry bud photo.
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I’m just going to say it. I do not understand how cannabis can survive without males.
Oh and trust me I’ve been ‘Googling’ for an hour. This statement of fact, I can’t find any information that backs up this claim. I simply do not understand. Google not telling how this is possible.
I get that female plants and male plants carry the same DNA, and females can offer the same genetics in an outcross. So if you pair a stable female with another stable female, you should expect 100% female plants that are stable. Got it. You could then stabilize and inbreed the line, only outcrossing it when you need to increase potency or certain traits or whatever. I get that all of this is possible and doesn’t degrade the plant/genetics/whatever in any way shape or form. What I do not understand is how we can adopt this mindset, and say it’s ok to remove males completely from the modern evolution of cannabis. If anyone feels free to enlighten me I would be all ears. Furthermore, by breeding in this fashion are we increasing of potency/benefits in cannabis?
Hey bro how r u doing. @V4vendetta
Believe me bro I get it.
Nfsot, fepo. You see words can be easily misconstrued as marketing as you tell by the warning that I got.
I don’t want to get caught up in all that that rhetoric because it only causes confusion and serves me no purpose since I do not have anything that I lm marketing.
Every time i bring my plants name up shit gets blowed out of proportions. That’s the internet for you. Look at your post to me.
You and several others have taken it up on yourselves to spread misinformation when in fact I have a thread here with tons of pics. Hell I even display my master photographer’s badge and have been doing so since I earned it.
This is a post about “breeding for potency” bro and I respect that.
I’m not here to argue with anyone about how it’s done and I have said all I’m going to say about “breeding for potency.”
With that being said, I’m going to block anyone else that ask me anything about my plants.
Your guys are going to have to find your own way just like I did.
Why do I have to tell you anything when it’s obvious that you already know it all.
Pics….lol. And you was serious. 
.
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Fems have their place. People with low plant counts for example. How they produce seeds is their business.
Regs aren’t going anywhere. There is a market to be satisfied.
If regs start to disappear I will make it my mission to flood the world with my regs.
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Indeed, reg or fem have the same value for cannabis! Only thing i mean is that males are a evolutionary necessity for cannabis wild in nature and are not in hands of humans where we can use clones and fems to continue evolve cannabis.
Pz
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