1 kilo per light - or why gm/watt suck!

(sigh) people dont read posts. people cant think logically. people dont do math. people are in love with stoner science and refuse to give it up.

I’ll give you the pedantic part. Guilty as charged.

No it hasnt. If people actually bothered to read what was said they would know that.

(sigh again) Then why did you post your stats in the first place??? But - that was exactly my point - you CANT measure dicks with gm/watt - or any of the other common metrics. It just doesnt work.

(sigh)(sigh)(sigh) This is maybe why some commercial growers go out of business if they are using gm/watt as a metric.

Okokok, I give up (not really). I will quit trying to pound some sense into (some of) your heads. You are (mostly) all obviously to stoned to get it and/or cant be bothered to read. :slight_smile:

3 Likes

“people cant think logically. people dont do math. people are in love with stoner science and refuse to give it up”

He says without the slightest hint of irony. It’s not a lack of understanding your point that’s my issue, but thanks for implying I’m too stupid to understand ‘science’! And of course none of the things you’re saying resemble ‘stoner science’ at all…

“I will quit trying to pound some sense into (some of) your heads. You are (mostly) all obviously to stoned to get it and/or cant be bothered to read”

Without the slightest hint of irony…what a fun place for interesting discussions the internet has become! Please save us from ourselves and our ignorance.

“This is maybe why some commercial growers go out of business if they are using gm/watt as a metric”

If only they possessed such a brilliant, unbiased, ‘scientific’ mind as yours I’m sure they would be doing ok!

So to conclude: grams/watt is TOTALLY USELESS AND FAKE, but whatever vague, unclear method of measuring efficiency you use is TOTALLY RIGHT, ACCURATE AND AWESOME. Also commercial growers fail because they lack the intelligence to see the scientific facts behind growing weed as you can.

In short you = right, everyone else = wrong. Thanks for clearing that up, great exchange here!

(sigh)

2 Likes

Ok now I feel like a dick so let me clarify lol. I totally get what you’re saying about grams/watt not being a very accurate metric, it’s just that I don’t really care. It’s good enough for most of our purposes and is universally known as a simple ‘benchmark’ among growers.

As I said earlier it’s similar to horsepower in that saying ‘my car has 800 horsepower’ really doesn’t mean anything without knowing the shape of the car, weight, etc etc. Pretty much all car guys know this but they still drop those HP numbers anyways because it’s easy and good enough for day to day discussion.

It’s the implication that were all too stupid to ‘get it’ that irks me. It’s nothing personal, you seem like a very cool guy. Also your grow is great and clearly you’re very efficient and pulling really good numbers from your setup so it’s nothing against you or your abilities.

That said we can keep arguing if you want lol :nerd_face:

Okay enough dicks, i think its as much a tit measuring contest now as anything else.

New metric! Gram per day. Per cubic ft. You measure from floor to the light. The day measurinf starts from when the seedling pops its first set of leafs (cotleydons or however you spell it)
State wet or dry, trimmed, manicured or smashed with a hammer.
Outdoor growers you are fucked because your light is several million miles away but you can still join in :rofl:

Now please start measuring your nugg chodes and come compare to mine

11 Likes

Hey Bro ! thanks for taking the time to do them calculations … All good ! no worry I am all for some friendly competition as at the end of the day all we can do is learn from each other… I am thankful that we can legally share our gardens without the risk of persecution… as far as I am concerned us Cannabis people are the most persecuted people on the planet .

5 Likes

The big metal halide in the sky is my favorite light

6 Likes

I have to apologize. My posts obviously came across exactly the wrong way. I thought I was making it clear that the “competition” aspect was all in jest. I meant all the “I win”/“You win” stuff as pure sarcasm.

It was intended to be funny AND to highlight the fact that it is nearly impossible to really ‘measure dicks’ in our hobby, and that who “wins” and who looses depends almost entirely on how you do the math.

Gm/watt of course being the worst of the worst. (sorry, had to get that in)

Obviously I totally blew it, and I do apologize for making you think your dick is…well, we better not go there, so Ill just say Im sorry for screwing that up and offending you, or belittling you or your grow in any way.

Seriously - that was NOT my intention.

3 Likes

I dont really want to continue. My head is kind of getting sore after pounding on the cement wall for so long.

To be fair, and to apologize to you too…You were justified in being a dick, because I was a dick to you right before that.

Of course, you started it with that “Why do people keep endlessly harping on this?” dig in an earlier post. But, I did take the “people” thing and implying that everyone is stupid too far, so sorry about that. I wasnt feeling well, but thats not a good excuse for acting like a 3 year old when you’re north of 65.

But you are absolutely right about one thing - as far as grams/watt - Im right and your wrong.

Glad we finally got that straight! :smiley:

Im perfectly willing to end the argument on that note :smiley:

7 Likes

I can dig that, we’re clearly both too mature and intelligent for such bickering :+1:

4 Likes

I think a good way to move foreward than harping on whats wrong is to work on a new method of measuring that works for us all

2 Likes

@Bob13 Thats are very mature and intelligent suggestion! :wink:

Seriously, thats been were I have wanted to go from the beginning - but obviously I have not been successful!

There have been a couple of threads on this subject, but its been a while.

As I recall, pretty much everyone eventually agreed gm/watt was lacking to at least some degree, but there was no real consensus on what metric to use. The problem being that there is such a huge variation in growing conditions and sizes or rooms and number of plants, that no single metric really covered all conditions fairly or equally.

One thing we did agree on was that time needed to be included, but thats not enough by itself.

Take two people who both harvest a net 1000 grams, you could say they both did equally well.
But what if one took 6 months to get to harvest and the other took 3 months?
What if one guy harvest from a single plant but the other guy had 10 plants?
What if one was growing in an small closet and the other guy was in a big room?

And most irrelevant of all - what if one guy had 1000 watts and the other guy had 500 watts?

Its like @nitro’s grow and mine. They were radically different grows in almost all respects. No single metric can cover all those bases equally well or equally fairly.

For my personal tracking, grams/day is the only thing that matters to me. Everything else in my grows is always the same - sq ft, height, tent, nutes (more or less) lights, temps, etc etc etc.

But - no one else can compare their gm/day to my gm/day because it leaves out time and space.

If someone else had 10 times the space to grow in, you would expect them to have a much larger gm/day number - on the order of 10 times as high. If they took 2 times as long to harvest, you would also expect at least some increase in yield. Or if they had 10 times the number of plants you would expect them to have a higher yield.

So to really compare, you would need to do something like gm/day/plant/sq ft - but OMG thats way to much division and the numbers would look very very small.

In my case, my better grows are coming in at just under 8 gm/day. Call it 7.5 gm/day. That doesnt sound too bad. But add in plants and sq ft and it gets small.

763/96/3/7.33 = .36

But then - how do you figure the sq ft on a large grow where the grower needs walking room? and space between large plants to work on them? In that case, they start to look really bad compared to my grow in a small tent where I have zero wasted space. We saw that in one set of numbers comparing my grow to @nitro’s. His sq ft number includes all those things my tent doesnt have, so it made his grow look much worse than it could have.

If he had taken my tent and just put several of them side by side, our numbers would have been much closer.

I have a bad habit of doing long posts, so I’ll cut it short.

I think the best compromise for a general purpose dick measuring, excuse me, I meant to say “grow” measuring tool is gm/day/plant.

Its still not perfect by a long shot. Guys who do sea of green with single colas, and guys who veg for a long time will both look worse than guys who do short veg cycles and/or train the heck out of their plants.

I still think its the best compromise, but Im all for coming up with a better one. Anything is better than gm/watt.

Anyone have anything they think is better than gm/day/plant?

3 Likes

Okay, drop plant count would be my first suggestion (refer to #1) and use sq ft by area the plants + light takes up minus working space. that’s for say if you have a walkway between rows you measure from plant tip to plant tip. Also drop looking at watts too as some people on here are producing some lovely yields at very low wattage and we all know if you include watts you got to include fans, dehuey, mother chambers, seed costs and pumps along with every other expenditure.

#1 counting plants is crazy cause then you got to count mother plants, cloning chambers, seed costs and whatever else, alongside when you grow a huge single plant it would skew your numbers massively compared to 1000 singles in a sog.

Total yielded dried grams + dried trim and stems divided by day from cotyledon divided by square feet from floor (bottom of the pots) to bottom of the light and from far edge leaf tip to opposite far edge leaf tip. Yes the numbers look small but you are looking for a good metric for comparison not a massive number.

If you add in the root ball then it becomes such a faff and near impossible for non hydro growers to seperate the roots from the medium plus hydro may have salt build up on the roots adding weight.

So in short g/day/sqft

or for a more accurate number yet even smaller cause my duck is so small that the small number makes it look normal g/day/sqmm

3 Likes

my belief is growrrom efficiency is best determined by final dried bud weight vs wattage used and time in the big room…who cares if a clone sits under a floro for 3 weeks in a tent, its not costing you anything…its not until you transplant and put the plants in the big room that it starts costing you money…if I worked for a commercial operation and was paid production bonuses it would be calculated off final bud weight and time needed in the big room ( expensive to operate ) …

4 Likes

If I was running a grow company I would be calculating it off my electric bill and space costs (everything) vs saleable produce and I could put everything that’s not good bud through the hash making produce.

The big companies would not calculate it off the draw of watts from just the flower room no way.

They would also probably clone in their veg room.

The companies would even calculate in water and medium and nutes.

Outgoing bill vs incoming profit

4 Likes

every commercial operation and their master grower is well aware of their grams per watt

3 Likes

I guess at the end of the day we have to ask what is it here that we are trying to accomplish ? I can see Larry’s point that grams per watts only tells a small part of the story…if a plant requires 6 months in the big room to make weight who cares if its grams per watt is high

Maybe a 6 month window of bud production vs wattage used vs square footage would give a better perspective and way to judge proficiency.

… with my current setup and pace, every 6 months it would be 18 lbs of dried nugget, 4 lbs of dried primo shake, smalls , with 2100 rated watts of power draw from all the lights combined out of 102 square feet of space… this is real world 6 months…not breaking it down to a decimal point… by the time I clean my rooms and get reset its all I can do to run 2 crops in 6 months.

main grow room canopy 12’ x 6’9" , 12 x 160 watts LED panels ( main growroom size 14’ x 6’9" , 7’ ceiling )
cloning tent 2’ x 4’, 1 x 120 watt LED panel

overall growroom/grow tent floorspace 94.5 + 8 = 102.5 sq/ft

2 Likes

If we were to put this to a workable formula I would think we would do something like this,

final weight in grams over 6 months / square footage / ( wattage used/1000)

… ideally we would want to break down actual watt hours but this foruma here would still give us a good model to work from

Impressive stats, I’m sorry I realised I should have been saying ft cubed not squared. Because height should be included. If it’s efficiency we are looking at… I like numbers but sadly I don’t have any for a real comparison, soon I should have something to weigh but I got seeds going.

Now if we use space cubed then the numbers will come out different as I’m using at most 2ft in height 15 inches at the moment. from what I can see you use lots of that 7ft you have so that’s up to 3 or 4 times my space effectively but it’s not counted, i could stack up two or three of my chambers in your area haha though you are running at 19w per sq ft compared to my 60! I have been thinking about splitting my light in two and doubling my grow room, you may have just convinced me to attempt it. Cause then even my predicted numbers of 5g every 6x6 inches of floor space in three months at 30w would seem to beat yours but I’m going to smash in 36 not 16 when I’m done with seeding.

Eh I guess sq ft works actually to an extent as I would be doubling my floor area but it works the same if I just turn my light down. Light penetration will effect yields lots though right??

2 Likes

Sheldon:
This table. It’s in square centimeters. I read it in square meters. Do you know what that means?

Amy:
That Americans can’t handle the metric system?

4 Likes

I have some advice for people, that applies to every aspect of life. There are certain things people can say… I’ll call it rhetoric or rhetorical, which was identified as the best way to win an argument by the greeks like 2000 years ago. Nowadays, they call it “logical fallacy” because as soon as it’s muttered, it has no meaning. Ok so I’ll give it a go just for example:

Hey you know-nothing twits, I got some advice from a real pro here… you are doing everything wrong, I mean no real grower would do anything different from “$insert insane advice here”, don’t you agree!!!

hah hah I hope nobody would really say something like that because I’ll point out the problem. It’s completely devoid of any meaning. So to break it down… It starts with an ad hominem attack on anyone reading it - basically calling everyone twits. Then it goes on to argument from authority “I got some advice from a real pro here” insinuating I know something special. Then, it performs a no true Scotsman by saying you’re not a real grower if you don’t follow my insane advice. Then, insert insane advice - I mean pick any concept it doesn’t matter. Then end with loaded question “don’t you agree”, completing the end-game with an insinuation that if you don’t agree you’re not a pro, or a real grower.
I recommend a complete mind overhaul of all humans into rational thinkers. Not to much to ask :wink:

6 Likes