6 cabs in built in wardrobe, 500w LED, perpetual, coco DTW

[anon22925236]

@Mr.Sparkle Thanks for stopping by, my man !

The number one goal of the project is yield. But it also has to have a strong buzz and good bag appeal, sparkly and dense.

I got about 1g/watt from my first harvest (20 plants of various size all in 2ltr hemp buckets - about 1litre of actual media volume, I used perlite & vermiculite at 3:1 ratio, fwiw… switched to coco for this run). Like I said, everything went wrong on that previous grow/harvest, but I still got a solid yield per watt.

I see others getting 1.5gpw, and from memory you’ve pulled 2gpw or there abouts. So with 4 flowering cabinets and the 10 weeks of time from clone, through veg, until putting in the flowering cabinet, I’m expecting to have a mature plant with a helluva root system, trained as best I can, that will maximise my yield for the space. Yield per square foot may be the limiting factor… 2.75sqft per cab, so 1.5oz/sqft would be just over four, and 2oz/sqft would be 5.5oz. If I flower with 100w, 1.5gpw would be 5.3oz.

5oz/harvest per cab on a 10 week strain allows for 5 x 4 cab harvests a year… that’s 100oz… so what d’ya think, can I pull 2oz a week off this setup? Is 10 weeks from clone to throwing into flower enough time to pull a 5oz harvest? I have just over zero growing experience, so I’m not sure… what are your thoughts?

I got a feeling you’re going to suggest I grow autos But… I have about 20 packs of GPS genetics in the fridge that I want to get through From everything I’ve read, GPS gear should be potent and have good bag appeal, just gotta make them yield?

Not sure if you read it… but I have another cab to build. I only bought it the other day, but I think it’s gonna be perfect. This is where I’m going to clone and veg a little, they will be in here for 5 weeks before going to a veg cab for 5 weeks.

Like I said before, you and the other guys from ICMag literally motivated me to start growing, when I saw what you were doing with micro spaces, that’s when I thought - I can do that!

I have a smorgasboard of weed to choose from right now, it’s unreal

Any and all advice much appreciated.

One last thing I forgot to mention… I want to keep plant numbers under 20… pains me to say it, but that probably includes clones I’m flexible on this for the first couple harvests while I get stuff dialled in. But once I have my cloning perfected (had nothing but success so far), I want to stay under 20 plants long term.

Oh, and the plan I have to test genetics… like now I have 5 new seedlings, I am going to clone them and flower a clone in a 2ltr hempy in the corner of a flowering cab, keeping a mother around (that’s the plan, anyway). Ideally, I don’t want to put a plant into the flower cab unless I’ve tested it first… or maybe I just take the gamble? Hmmm…

Last thing I forgot… the plan is to automate the watering. I have bought most of what I need already, but I want to get the cab finished before I worry about irrigation.

I’ll get some photos of the lights before they come on in an hour.

[anon22925236]

Just wanted to clarify… the plan is to move away from these hempy buckets and start using some sort of air pot. Low volume pots and multiple waterings daily on drippers.

Also, on the subject automating the watering… obviously it’s kinda sketchy having water over the lights. All four of the raised cabs are sealed with fibreglass resin and should be water tight. The two cabs on floor level aren’t sealed as yet, I saw a nice flood tray that would fit the cabs, but they run $25 each. Thinking of just using panda film. Anyway, I bought a 5ltr tub as a res, it will have to be refilled daily, that’s how I avoid the possibility of emptying a large res over some lights. I also considered not automating the watering, just manually turning the pump on twice a day… not sure what to do as yet… the first step will be 2ltr hempy buckets on drippers, watered twice a day, no automation.

[anon22925236]

Here’s the lighting…

Bottom right cab…

MIddle right cab…

Top right cab…

Left middle…

Top left… (cab not in use, air duct blocked at the moment…

Bottom left…

[anon22925236]

Here’s where I cut into the wall to hack into the mains line going to a power point at the other side… yeah, it’s not pretty. I’ve just bought a nice box and 3 x bus bars to clean it all up a bit. Inside the box you see there are wago connectors. And yeah, that’s a live connection hangin out… needs feeding back to the power point I’ll get it sorted. <edit: It’s actually better than it was! lol Prior to starting this journal, all my power strips were laying on the ground! I’ve since moved them above the cabs, pic coming soon. Drivers are also up there.

Here’s the right hand cab’s ducting… like I said, previously I had the air coming in the bottom through two intakes, with 2 x 4" plumbing pipe ducting each cab to the next, then it exhausted through the top of the cab through 1 x 4" pipe. That’s why the top cab has both the intake and outtake at the bottom… sucks because now the left/right sides aren’t symetrically ducted.

Left side ducting.

[anon22925236]

Got all the screens on today… the 2 x Doc Holiday’s are in left middle, 2 x unknown GPS are left bottom, gonna give them a few days to bounce back from the LST and flip them to flower… I’ll also take clones and this will start the perpetual journey. Take clones, move to veg, flip to flower, and harvest, every 5 weeks.

Bottom right and middle right both have an Eagle Scout each that need flipping to flower in 5 weeks, but it might happen earlier if they outgrow the cabs.

Upper right veg cab now holds all the seedlings and one unknown reveg.

I have a variance in screen to light distance… 17, 19, 20, and 21" distance from screen to light in the various flowering cabs… future grows will try to maximise this distance… I actually never intended to flower in these 2ltr bottles… I’m looking into 4" pots that hold 1-1.5 gallons of coco for next time.

I’ve turned the lights up in all the flowering cabs (currently being used to veg)… QB cabs are at 70w, Bridgelux strips are at 80w… I have a lumen meter that I’ve been comparing the cabs, measure at the screen, dead centre… I’ve got them all sitting around 25,000 lumens, fwiw. Top right veg cab I’ve turned down because the plants are about 1" from the light.

I still have the power supply and all the fans connected in the upper left veg cab, as you can see with the wires everywhere… that’s getting moved tomorrow, which will free up that cab for plants

[Mr.Sparkle]

Well definitely have all you need for a good start, well mostly.

Also no im not gonna say run auto’s lol, im a “run what you brung” type person and don’t discriminate, equal love here for photos or autos.

As for the light setups just a consideration, most are running in the 40-60w/sqft range as far as lighting goes, like myself im running around 100w in 2.25sqft. Saying that though thats where some fore thought into cooling can come into play in keeping things cool. So something to think about as far as light levels goes as definitely sounds like your running on the light side

With what you have and being conservative and with higher light levels, i think 150+g per chamber is definitely doable but will take a bit of work to get there at least as being consistent, then we can work on more yield as it goes along.

As for veg and clone space, honestly you probably only need one of the veg spaces to keep things going, so building a third probably isn’t needed. But i will say even though the idea of perpetual is nice and so long as your running the same strains its doable, but something to think about is running each segment/chamber as cycles, so your four flower chambers have them starting or changing over every 2.5 weeks or so. Reason i say that instead of adding say plants as they finish or a ready to start flowering is time schedules usually don’t keep on track, and plants will out grow their neighbors especially if say they are 2 weeks behind in comparison, its jsut easier to deal with plants all at the same level of maturity, plus you can tune feeding amounts and ratios if need be.

As for reservoirs, bigger lower mounted ones with pumps and runoff return lines is a good place to start, as its a tricky balance if trying to go waste free, and jsut easier to recycle runoff if you have any… which you can also force in those types of setups

[HappyHemper]

@DrDank, looks awesome. Really clean too, unlike my basement of terrors…

One comment if I may - I noticed what looks like LED boards screwed right tight to the particle board ceiling of the cab(s). Is there sufficient cooling for them? Normally we would see boards mounted to a good size piece of aluminium extrusion of sorts, a heat sink, and then either some air space left, or cooled actively with a small fan. High heat will degrade the diodes pretty quickly.

[anon22925236]

@HappyHemper : Yeah, this is a concern, thanks for pointing it out… the two veg cabs are fine since they never have more than 12w per strip running through them, but the plan is to crank the lights up to 100w+… I just put my hand on the wood at the other side of the light currently running at 80w of strips and it was only slightly warm. I’ll keep an eye on it.

[HappyHemper]

The cab can take a bit of heat, for sure, but the wood is a pretty good insulator, all things considered.

One example I can give is a linear strip light that the company i work for manufactures. People commonly install it on the underside of their handrails outdoors.

We void the 10-year warranty if it is installed directly onto a wooden railing without using an aluminium (or other metal, at least 1/4" wider than the strip) intermediate between the wood and the strip.

Maybe some stand-offs, and some air moving above the fixture?

Just my $0.02

[anon22925236]

@HappyHemper : Good idea on the standoffs. I’ll dig around the workshop and see if I can find something.

[anon22925236]

@Mr.Sparkle

As for the light setups just a consideration, most are running in the 40-60w/sqft range as far as lighting goes, like myself im running around 100w in 2.25sqft. Saying that though thats where some fore thought into cooling can come into play in keeping things cool. So something to think about as far as light levels goes as definitely sounds like your running on the light side

I turned the lights up the other day after reading your previous post… for sure I need the lights running at the maximum my environment can handle. And that’s the problem I just ran into… when I moved the plants into their own cabs the other day, temperatures have spiked.

I have the bedroom air con set at 68F and the middle right cab is 82F at screen level! So I installed another fan in that cab and it doesn’t seem to be helping much. It’s pointing right at the light and has made the heatsink nice and cool to touch, but doesn’t seem to be helping cab temps at all.

I’m using these cheap 120mm PC fans and they don’t seem to have much grunt at all… especially if you run them close to the cab walls. I have a 90mm Noctua fan in one of the cabs which seems to put out a lot more air. I noticed you have 4 x 40mm fans in your big cab… would you recommend the same for my setup? They’re $25 each at my local shop The 80mm Noctua fans are only $15, bizarrely.

@Mr.Sparkle

As for veg and clone space, honestly you probably only need one of the veg spaces to keep things going, so building a third probably isn’t needed. But i will say even though the idea of perpetual is nice and so long as your running the same strains its doable, but something to think about is running each segment/chamber as cycles, so your four flower chambers have them starting or changing over every 2.5 weeks or so. Reason i say that instead of adding say plants as they finish or a ready to start flowering is time schedules usually don’t keep on track, and plants will out grow their neighbors especially if say they are 2 weeks behind in comparison, its jsut easier to deal with plants all at the same level of maturity, plus you can tune feeding amounts and ratios if need be.

I’m not totally locked in to the perpetual idea, but it has some advantages for me… smell was a problem last harvest. I’ve just bought a new 6" x 500mm carbon filter that I’m going to put under my bed, attached to a 6" Hyperfan on a speed controller (haven’t bought that yet), scrubbing the air… hoping that will help with the smell. So the less often I harvest, the better… I could harvest all 4 cabs every 10 weeks, or 2 cabs every 5 weeks - this seems like a happy medium for me. It also means I don’t have to keep mothers around… just take a clone before throwing a plant into flower, then I have 10 weeks to nurse that clone into a plant that can yield.

@Mr.Sparkle

As for reservoirs, bigger lower mounted ones with pumps and runoff return lines is a good place to start, as its a tricky balance if trying to go waste free, and jsut easier to recycle runoff if you have any… which you can also force in those types of setups

It would be nice to run a recirculating system… I looked into condensate pumps… but it’s all a bit too much for me, I’ve never done irrigation before, so I need to keep it simple. I did consider having a res for each plant in each of the cabs, rather than having the res on the floor in the wardrobe, that would make it easier… I even considered running DWC tubs… but for me, right now, I need simple. And I gotta get these temps down before I worry about any of that

I have that 4" S&P inline fan running on low… should I change that to high? I think it’s 120cfm vs 160cfm… do you think that would help?

[Jellypowered]

160cfm vs 120 will help some.

I started calculating cubic feet of your cab spaces, came up with ~35 cu ft, not counting all your ducting, not knowing your exact ventilation setup, but You’re gonna need more beefy fan if you want to cool everything while lights are on full.

if running passive intakes, remember they should double the size of your active exhaust. (4 inch worth exhaust, 8 inch worth passive intake)

I’ll revisit this once i’ve got some sleep and try to explain everything better using actual science and math, vs tired jelly ramblings.

Edit: I’ve got good word that someone’s typing something up right now lol.

[Mr.Sparkle]

Well its more about airflow and the path it takes.

So consider what @HappyHemper said in that your lights being mounted to the roof, now if you have a fan blowing on them to keep it cool that heat has to go somewhere, which is typically back into your chamber. Now something i usually consider or at least in cabinet setups is i either try to draw exhaust air directly though the top of the cab if possible as its the best way to cool things just because hot air rises, but if one cannot then you can start thinking about sorta cool tube setups for heat efficiencies.

So pardon the basic photoshop scribble but say your current path is the example on the left where you have a lower fan circulating but its also helping draw in air, with a secondary fan blowing on the light to keep them cool while exiting the side, in this situation all heat produced by the lights will be recirculated within the chamber keeping it warm.

Now take the right side example, you still have a fan or two for circulation “mainly for the plants”, but instead you sorta cap of the top of your chamber to provide an airspace “big enough” behind your lights where the air is only being drawn in from the one side and running over the top, this will pull like a really good chunk of any heat that your lights produce out before it even has a chance to radiate into your chamber. Also doing so in this fashion it forces air to travel from one side of the chamber to the other instead of sorta just hugging the one wall which would happen if you didn’t have fans in there.

As for fan yeah i use 40mm fans but thats because they were free, they are actually 24v power converter fans that are just running at 12v. Im a fan of use what you have though

[anon22925236]

@Jellypowered : Hey, thanks for stopping by… I need all the help I can get, hehe

@Jellypowered

160cfm vs 120 will help some.

I started calculating cubic feet of your cab spaces, came up with ~35 cu ft, not counting all your ducting, not knowing your exact ventilation setup, but You’re gonna need more beefy fan if you want to cool everything while lights are on full.

I just re-wired the fan so it’s on full power now, 160cfm minus duct and carbon filter losses. Yep, around 35cuft… that’s why I went with the 4" S&P rated at 160cfm, I figured that would be more than enough. I had planned to buy a 6" 315cfm Hyperfan to hang off a 6" carbon filter and have it under the bed constantly scrubbing. Maybe I should use the 6" fan to ventilate the cabs?

@Jellypowered

if running passive intakes, remember they should double the size of your active exhaust. (4 inch worth exhaust, 8 inch worth passive intake)

I only have a single intake on each of the cabs on the left and the top right cab… however, the two flower cabs on the right have dual (2 x 4") intakes, left over from the previous ventilation system… the middle cab has one of them blocked off (just did that yesterday to see if it raised/lowered temperature)… I’m going to do some experimenting to figure out what works best

[anon22925236]

@Mr.Sparkle : Hey mate, thanks for taking the time to write a detailed reply… love the photoshop diagrams!

I think you’re right… the hot air is just getting blown around the cab, I was actually really surprised to see the right middle cab at 82F yesterday, even after I’d installed that extra fan! Lights are coming back on in 20 minutes so we’ll see if bumping the ventilation fan up to full power has made a difference.

Now that you’ve explained it, I see what you’ve done with your cab… and that’s what I should do with mine… just not even sure how I would start trying to build something like that. I wonder if anyone makes cool tubes for LED that I can buy off the shelf… gonna look into that.

I’m open to re-designing the cabs, buying new lights, fans, whatever… what would you say is the maximum temperature is that I shouldn’t exceed? From what I’ve read it’s about 80F? Surely if I have the room at 68, I could stay under 80 in the cabs… we’ll see.

Edit: Running the ventilation fan on full power hasn’t helped lower cab temperatures at all. The one solace I do have, is that with the doors off the cabs, they only run 9 degrees F above room temperature… but having the doors off is far from ideal.

[Mr.Sparkle]

There isn’t really any premade options, but also not that hard too do.

But lets just work with what you have for now before redesigning and building , even if its a lot of fun to do so. I will say though if things are built efficiently you arent having to add more and more to fix problems that were started off with.

As for temp thats in the 80f range you can grow plenty of fine bud in it. thats typically my upper side for heat in the spaces i grow.

So lets start with one side and work from there, as its easier to do one thing at a time then trying to do everything at once.

So which side do you want to start with, and do you have any current pics of it ?

Also just to note there is a discord chat for og that myself and a bunch of others usually hang out in where talking about things is a bit easier than thread style, but really it doesn’t matter, we will get you sorted

[ReikoX]

I’m going to throw this out there, seeing as I have used the S&P myself. It’s a quiet fan with low static pressure. This means it moves a lot of air when it is unrestricted. Once it gets restricted, it doesnt move much air at all. Not saying you need a bigger diameter, but my 4" vortex blows it away (pun intended)

Amazon.com : Vortex Powerfans VTX800 Vortex 739 CFM Powerfan, 8",Silver : Built...

[Palindrome]

Nice looking build - Happy growing!

Gonna be interesting to follow, im working on a 3 layer 6 cab closet design.
I worry about heat from the lower rooms, heating up the root zone of the cab above it.

But I aim to run it around 50-55 Watt/sqft

[HappyHemper]

There is this polyisocyanurate sheet product, which has awesome insulation value, and it has layers of reflective material on it too. Thermax or Enerfoil are the two brands that come to mind.

It is closed-cell, super resistant to moisture. They use it for below grade masonry insulation. I am sure that a 1/2" player will be plenty to insulate to upper roots from lower can heat.

I have used this stuff to insulate a boat I was living on, and it did really really really well. Sold at masonry supplies distributors; not very expensive either.

[anon22925236]

@Mr.Sparkle

Also just to note there is a discord chat for og that myself and a bunch of others usually hang out in where talking about things is a bit easier than thread style, but really it doesn’t matter, we will get you sorted

Good idea, I’ll catch you Discord! I’m intrigued by what ideas you’ve come up with. The best one I could think of was getting a 570mm x 450mm sheet of perspex (the same size as cab’s footprint) and mounting it an inch or so below the lights, then cutting a hole in the side of the cab (40mm x 440mm) and chucking a small PC fan in there to circulate air. All my other ideas involved encasing the LEDs in a perspex case, ugh… can’t wait to hear your idea, @Mr.Sparkle.