Karel claimed he got 10 seed and Nevil got 10 seed from Sam i mean honestly they make it up as they go. Nevil bought not was given 1000s of Haze seed soon as Sam arrived in Holland.
Karel calls the the clone he was given of the Out Back Haze the best Haze in Holland in a resent podcast the clone came from F1 seed Nevil gave to Mischka.
Karel calls a Haze x Sk he got from Sam all those years ago Haze.
Yes, it’s always a personal choice but I preferred green to purple, I like the flavor, the cleaner, lighter effect, and I found it “easier” to grow…
I did a small repro green ot1hz thai x purple ot1hz thai,I have also an original pack of green ot1hz x thai and I plan to do an open repro as soon as possible…
I wasn’t there when Sam came to the Netherlands with his seeds in 1984.I met Karel 12 years ago in a coffeeshop in the Hague.He gave me a bud & s1 seeds of his Haze afterwards.The bud he gave me smoked as Haze and after curing you could smell the incense.
Some call their hybrids with Haze just plain and simple Haze, NL5, Skunk#1 et-al. Why is it less of a ”crime” to do so with NL5 compared to the Karel’s Skunk x Haze??
Maybe I should also leave the OCD behind and call this just ”Haze”… even if it has both Skunk#1 and NL5 in its linage… nah… I also think that is kind of faking it…
They call their hybrids Haze because they are more Haze than 95% of THH when Tom Hill said that 5% THH are great and the rest is hay. That’s the reason of all the whining of the Neville and NLHaze hate boys, that NL hybrids are more Haze than THH.
well that’s like your opinion man to me they are haze hybrids and I am not making any comments on the quality of the hybrid nor the quality of anyone’s haze just that I like to be more precise than calling a hybrid of something that something, I don’t care who says it, it’s not right and it’s confusing for some people… I like haze hybrids, NL5 x Haze, even hybrids of NL5Hz I have found to be pretty good but I wouldn’t go around calling it pure Haze and I sure wouldn’t heckle others for doing so if I did it myself… just my OCD as I said, to some it doesn’t matter and that’s fine with me, to each their own…
also it kind of itches when someone cries a lot about people ”rubbishing” some seed makers while they’re perfectly fine ”rubbishing” other seed makers whenever they feel like it. Me personally I think we should all be able to say what the fudge we want about all the seed makers, we’re all entitled to our own opinion… but for some it’s more important trying to dress up in other people’s opinions, I like my own better most of the time hehe…
@StocktonT What are some of your favorite examples of haze hybrids?
I like a lot of haze hybrids like NL5 x Haze which was a favorite back in the day. Super Silver Haze when selecting a longer flowering expression was also pretty good back in the 90s. I like the one pictured too, it’s kind of a NL5Hz hybrid too with some Skunk#1 just like SSH had. To me the hybrids fill a whole different function than a ”pure” NLD type like Thai as I don’t want to grow them indoors so indoors I really like Haze hybrids. I have a few that are going to get grown after new years that I got from south Holland. One NL5HzA x Colombian and one G13HzA x Colombian as well as some NL5HzC and the lovely C5 Mango Haze by Wally. The latter I have smoked and it is really a nice haze hybrid. I know that one does well indoors as well as south of the 9th parallel north.
Round and round we go folks, the never ending debate of haze origins.
more of a debate on what should be called ”haze” rather than origin to me but maybe you didn’t read the last few posts?
Okay, haze name orginis
I have made no comment to the origin of the name haze either, just trying to point out that haze is one thing, haze hybrids are another just like blueberry is one thing, sweet tooth is not blueberry but a hybrid with blueberry in it… but of course, maybe I am just dizzy from going round and round…
I have grown both Nl5hz and SkHz, I have appreciated them and I have used them to make crosses; honestly the names are just names, if you grow a original haze it is a original haze, if you grow a selection of haze it is a selection of haze, and if you grow a hybrid it’s a hybrid…
couldn’t agree more
Also one point I tried to make in the context of discussing pure haze or haze hybrid is if one wants to make a first generation haze hybrid then it is important to have pure haze. You can’t make first generation haze hybrids with a haze hybrid… to some that isn’t important as they’re not growing to make their first generation haze hybrids but that could be one reason some people want to have the haze non hybridized. Someone already brought up Tom Hill and he makes that point a few times in one of the pot-cast interviews, he want to cross it (haze) to everything and also to nothing (itself) that way he will still have it (haze) in the future to cross with everything lol…
Something that I always feel is lost in the discussions of haze is that it’s a poly hybrid to begin with, so the true F1 hybrid doesn’t exist. Which in return won’t give you define set of traits when out crossed in the first generation. This means that even a hybrid can be as much haze as a pure haze is, even though on the paper it’s not pure. This also means that there is no set traits for a real haze, it’s a spectrum of traits and some like different parts of that spectrum.
Instead of bickering about the best haze and so on. Can’t we all agree that the spectrum called haze produce a wide range of all fantastic plants that have their own value and place in the canna community?
A range that more people should explore, a range that is very under valued in the commercial canna industry. Maybe this bickering in the forums turn others away from trying it out and finding what part of the spectrum they like?
So, why not celebrating haze instead and all type of hazes?
Pz 
Tom never said the other 95% were hay, Tom literally said the Dutch haze was great smoke just not as good as the Thai 5%er in his stock. He’s right, at least one of 20 of his are insane plants. I understand the passion but I don’t understand the argument.
yes haze is a hybrid to begin with so in the Mendelian sense there can’t be any ”F1” haze hybrids same with Northern Lights, also a hybrid to begin with so a NL x Haze isn’t a true F1 but already a poly hybrid. But even when making poly hybrids to me it is important to have a ”pure” poly hybrid of a variety one wishes to hybridize rather than a hybrid of it or a backcross of it. But some times a hybrid or a backcross of it is all one have so one has to use it. My point was that if I wanted to make haze hybrids (or any other for that matter) I need to have haze to do it.
I am not trying to bicker about it and I made no comments to the quality of any of the hybrids or the pure variety, well I actually said I like a lot of different haze hybrids so yes I did comment on quality but not in the sense of which one is ”best”. That is way to subjective to be interesting to bicker about lol.
I actually think I celebrate haze, thai and a lot of other things by growing them and smoking them, that is the ultimate celebration. To each their own and each one of us enjoy and grow these plants for our own reasons making our goals with both growing and seed making different hence comparing them against each other in the sense of which one is ”best” is a moot point.
With all respect, you rely too much on what Tom, Sam and Nevil say, they are just people, a lot of experience for sure, but they are human, grow the hazes, the hybrids, learn to know them…
If I had listened to everything, I would still be growing only early queens and autoflowers by now…
It’d be a crime to sell the THH cut imho. And I must not be alone feeling that way, the thrill is in the chase.
who? me? I think what I said was almost exactly what you point out…
edit: and then I realized that you might not have addressed me, lol, sorry
