are seedbanks normally selling legit regular seeds ? and not s1 seeds for example. i guess legit would mean a filial generation of sorts
what are the issues you can encounter if you breed plants together from a) similar and b)disimilar genetics
keywords - bottlenecking, inbreeding depression
if you have no intention of selling seeds and just want to find a very original mother plant does all breeding theory go out the window ? and you just cross whatever you want and grow out the seeds in search for a beast ?
cheers . any info appreciated
Breeding the same stock over and over to itself overtime can develop something called Founders effect.Essentially those plants will eventually all develop a common weakness that will be an achilles heel and effect all the plants across the board and cause deficiency and weakness and eventually wipe it out Almost happened to US corn stock in the 1930s we almost lost all our corn doing this
I’m very very new to the breeding end of things, but my biggest fears as a new chucker are “inbeeeding depression” and unlocking and/or perpetuating undesirable and/or recessive traits. (I have learned, not all recessive traits are bad)
Hi:)
Thanks for replying.
So basically a nice way of saying pollen chucking with perhaps a little selection along the way? . It’s pretty obvious a majority of breeders use methods like that if they come up with a strai. Every 6 months I guess. And I guess it may be legitimate. It’s the complete opposite of breeding for stability and longer term continuation of a gene pool A ok approach if you have no goals other than to find a mother plant ? As far as theory goes what can go wrong when you continue down the path of continuous outcrossing ? My guess is it’s about as accurate as anything for results in the f1 generation but fails quickly after that- as to why I don’t know. So I guess when you buy seeds from a seedbank they are poly hybrid filial 1-6 and when you breed them to a similar seed you have more chance of getting homozygous recessive genes ? Or …. Going the opposite way and playing safe by crossing stable landrace or inbreeds you’ll just get homozygous dominant the whole way? I’m no expert but interested in peoples ideas for sure. Cherry o
Unfortunately I don’t have time to give a longer response (whoever put that meeting on my calendar is now top opp) but there was a recent article on cannabis genetics that was cool and kind of surprising.
Outcrossing is important because it breaks up homozygosity and deleterious recessive genes that have paired up. Turns out when you self a plant, in the short term, the homo/heterozygosity is similar (not statistically different) from an F1 seed produced from 2 parents. So self your plants and inbreed for a bit, you will still be able to pump fire. More importantly, the more inbred your parental lines are, the more consistent your F1 will be. You will also heighten the chances of seeing hybrid vigor in those seeds. Our understanding of the cannabis genome is pretty small right now, so the next 5 years should see a lot of these breeding questions answered (even quicker if Sched 3 takes off and research grants are awarded).
Breeding dogs and cannabis have alot of similarities same with Chicken breeders especially with a male chicken having a larger data Gamete same as with cannabis .Read this link if you can it will give everyone some incite into a basic concept that i think Cannabis will eventually have to retooled again in the near future due to loss of genetic diversity.We’re throwing genes right out the window Founder's Effect | Breeding Better Dogs
Don’t worry about the first one, it’s difficult to obtain with cannabis. Passing on undesirable traits, that’s one worry about. Test and grow a lot of plants, it’ll become second nature if you’re good at “reading plants”.
Good response! F1 vigor and inbreeding depression are vastly misunderstood. I’ve seen such great variety and vigor in S2 of lines that many would call inbred cookies.
I’d contend that you’d struggle to find any inbreeding depression in 99% plus of the cannabis seeds on the market. People need to stop parroting old and outdated thinking…
I think most of what you see on the market now is poly-poly-poly-hybrids. It honestly has been for a bit, some have just been worked and selected longer/more carefully. The downside is the homogenization of effects and flavors but the upside is the genome is large enough that random cross over events account for the heterozygosity in offspring. I would argue a great starting point is to take a multi poly hybrid and inbreed for 4-6 generations. You could do that 100 times with 100 different sets of the same genetics and end up with something different every time.
what would you classify as the “same stock” ? would it be 1. brothers and sisters 2. same strain or group of strains as in the case of polyhybrids .
perhaps most of all it would happen due to small populations of plants breeding dont you think ?
most of the strains circulating in europe for example are recombinations of haze, northern lights, and skunk .
Stock i mentioned in general is Smaller populations that have the same Founding genetic material that is not eventually outsourced to add new genetics = Founders effect could include parents that were siblings that were bred beyond IBL that all have the same parents that pass the same defects down the line thats why they call it line breeding when you breed back to the same line they do it with inbreeding dogs all the time its how defective traits get passed down its not a good practice .Its in that link on dog breeding i dropped explains it pretty well just replace dog with the word plant in your head its the-same breeding concept plant breeders use
