I’m new to breeding, and going to be starting some personal breeding projects, soon. I’ve noticed that there are various unwritten “rules” or proper etiquette to breeding. I want to make sure I’m not missing/adding any! I know that there are some debates over a few of these, and most come down to the specific situation.
For instance, I know it’s not cool to F2 or S1 someone else’s current/new work, without their permission. But if that specific strain is no longer in production, has been discontinued, or the breeder has no plans to further the line, then it should be okay.
What about the name game? Obviously, renaming someone else’s strain is not acceptable, but what about crosses? Once crossed, should it be renamed? Or should it be labeled as the parental polyhybrid cross, until it’s taken further to a complex polyhybrid?
What about testing? Seems that there is very little testing being done, if anything other than a germ test. I hear a lot about herms popping up, instability, or unwanted mutations.
Is there a standard for a proper selection process? Should breeders that are hunting through 100’s to 1000’s of plants be lumped together with the ones that are only hunting through just a few plants?
Eh, if you’re breeding only for yourself or to give away to some people you know personally, f2 or s1 any and every thing you want. There’s no contract or anything.
It’s only out of respect that we don’t do co-op seedruns on currently available genetics. We only do seedruns on discontinued stuff so the breeder still had all the chances to get paid for their hard work. But if I decide to pop some Mephistos, best believe I’m making more seeds for myself and a few others solely because they make it so difficult to order from them. I’m still not gonna post them all over the net tho to give away, out of respect.
Technically if you make the first cross ever of those two strains, you can name it whatever you want. For me tho, I’m just listing the parents until i work it. If I pick and work a pheno through the line over time and it’s no longer representative of the F1’s or whatever it was, then I might name it, likely with the parents still in perenthesis.
For testing, this is up to you and what you’re doing. If you’re trying to sell seeds, you better run out a pack of them at least before selling them to people so you know what to tell them about it and what to expect, as well as check for herms and such. Not everyone does this and it kinda shows in the results.
If they’re free though… germ test usually good enough unless you know there may be herms. My last run, I knew the genetics were 100% stable so germ test was fine as I was giving them away anyways. And I’ve been growing them out now that I’ve given away the seeds, so others can see what they’ll get out of the packs.
Thanks for the response, and I agree with you. Seeds for personal use or gifts follow a different set of guidelines. I was more specifically thinking about the surge of new “breeders” that are marketing their beans through social media platforms. For myself, I was planning on hunting as many plants as I possibly can (however long it takes to find those special plants), and trying to work towards a certain goal. I was planning for it to take a few years before I would be able to have something that is what I want, stable, and tested. Something unique and my own. Then take that and cross it to some other strains to create crosses off my main project.
I see a lot of people that are just making crosses from others crosses made from others crosses, and calling it done. I had a false picture in my head that “breeders” were growers that had put lots of work in developing or stabilizing a strain. Doing rigorous and diligent work to ensure that they’re passing out quality genetics. That was my mistake in making a false presumption, and I’m trying to adjust to a different mentality. I want to broaden my perspective by hearing others views and opinions on breeding practices.
I’m learning that, in the end, it is as simple as crossing two plants together. There’s no law saying that a simple cross can’t create something amazing and complex.
Yeah I hate that constant crossing. You’re not giving away a strain that way, you’re giving away 25 strains in ~10 beans. Can get some great plants that way, but yeah. No stability. I’m not buying beans off anyone doing that crap. All those insta sellers are doing it wrong IMO.
What you are defining there as a “breeder” is what is called pollen chucker now, just make crosses for the sake of doing it and selling them as untested, that ain’t breeding.
I’m not a breeder myself neither pollen chucker but what I know is.
There is no need to run thousands of plants to do a proper pheno job, don’t mistake genotype and phenotype, you want the phenotype to be the best for an specific goal, like mould resistance, growing in hot climates or short structure you just have to put those plants under the criteria you want to archive until you find that plant that us the all in one.
Before get yourself in to a 1000 plant operation you should have clear what you want to accomplish and select the cuts or seeds that will do best for that matter otherwise is quite easy to get lost with such number of plants.
Personally, there is nothing wrong to release your own personal work , sometimes you just want to put out there whatever is your best cultivar straight, no crossed, and that is the purpose of breeding.
Why would you go trough all the hassle selecting and reproducing your own variety if later on is going to be crossed again with another plant?
Yeah F1s will get the most hybrid vigour ,but if is a cultivar that you want to have in your catalogue as the old seed banks used to,you might want ti stick in to 4/5 cultivars rather than crossing, testing, and releasing a bunch of f1 and developing those as your main ones according to your goals or criteria
I dont necessarily agree on a personal level the continual out crossing without stabilization and calling it your own, or people reselling f1’s or s1 of something though regardless when there is $$$ to be made people will do it regardless of what others may think.
For one who likes to make seeds such as myself, i typically at least try and keep the part of the name or linage intact or at least am upfront about it when asked, and figure once say a line diverges past the point where its not an accurate representation of the original source its should be renamed with credit or at least indicated so people dont mistake what your playing with as the same as the original.
Name it what you want. There is no rule but proper labelling, despite what anyone will tell you. I honestly couldn’t care less if some ivory-tower $100/pack of seeds breeder loses a few sales. It’s my prerogative if I wanna F2 or self something, I didn’t sign a contract or agree to shit. I don’t grow weed because I like rules.
I am one of those “IG breeders”. When people say they want “stability” they really don’t mean it. Y’all ever actually grow inbred lines? Trust me, it ain’t gonna wow anyone when you crack a jar. Those are more breeding tools. Granted, the relentless machine of selfing and crossing to the latest fad plants with no regard to anything but how photogenic the plants are is a separate thing. IG cookie plant hype train is not my scene whatsoever.
If you need to search through hundreds of plants to find “the one” it probably isn’t a very good line to begin with. Many breeders are lying about how many plants they run.
Shit ain’t patented.
As for how to breed and select cannabis, you could write a book on it. People have, several.
To distill it: Find strong vigorous females you like. Pick your males from lines that consistently throw excellent females, or inbred lines you like. Think how the females could be complimented by traits of the male line. Avoid plants and lines that show weakness or intersex traits.
@Berserker7205 Good of you to be considerate of others, no matter what.
If you simply want to play/experiment, then do whatever you like, right? As long as nobody get’s hurt.
But copying someone elses stuff, with or without tweaks/modifications, should be done with permission, and without intent to profiteer.
It’s not unique to seedmaking & I’m oversimplifying (cuz I’m high & tired), but it’s basically that “golden rule” idea of doing unto others as you’d have done to you…(and it’s inverse ).
'hope this clarifys or at least agrees with the above posts.
I think if breeders want to protect their strains they can only sell feminized seeds, otherwise they can’t tell people want to do with their seeds that they paid money for. I’m don’t like hearing about patents on strains. It’s nature and your part of it.
There are no laws or patents in n strains, and I will agree with vernal that it is the grower’s right to be able to breed with anything they’ve purchased or acquired. At that point you own those genetics. On that same note, if I put a lot of work into creating something stable (consistent) and quality, I wouldn’t appreciate others quickly trying to replicate those genetics for profit. Possibly taking away from my own business, or not doing proper selections and creating inferior genetics that could reflect onto myself. There are no set rules or laws, but there are certain etiquettes that I think most breeders should follow, thus the reason for this thread. I know there are lots of varying opinions, and no one person is right. To each their own, and there’s justifiable reasons to support most sides of this. I’m just curious about others opinions and practices.
What about showing the parents of the seed stock and/or the production of those seeds? I rarely ever see breeders posting their males, selection processes, or pollinated moms. I feel like there should be more transparency there.
Maybe different from some, I think it’s real important to at least acknowledge the breeder of the seed you receive; if you bought stock from a seedbank. “G13 Labs Super Skunk x Crockets OG #4” or whatever. Just think that some breeders’ put years of work into a strain and deserve the credit for the source. Kind like an ‘Open Source’ license or something. If it was bagseed - then say so, if it was buddy seed ask him who created it (if he knows).
be honest and open with your customers about any questions they have, including where your genetics came from and what methods you used for breeding
Etiquette for this is virtually non-existent.
To me, if you’re gonna charge someone money for a new hybrid, it’s gotta be tested. But if someone is selling untested seeds and they’re honest about them not being tested, it’s on the buyer.
Breeding isn’t profitable enough to buy a license to do this – at least not in my state. I don’t think there’s breeders in the US with those numbers, and if there were, they wouldn’t advertise it. There’s only a few governments in the world where this is very realistic.
Remember your abc 's , always be cloning . The best ones are always the ones you don’t keep , work towards what you want to see in a line and not what the current hype is because it will change by the time your seeds mature lol
Keep detailed notes to look back on so you can keep track of changes whether good or bad.
Good of you to be considerate of others, no matter what.
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thems the breaks.