Fuck that. If those plants actually are herms, you really think they should be included in a seed run, the results of which are gonna be spread far and wide? I do not and will never understand this attitude of,”Oh, herms are just a part of growing weed…” Bullshit. Maybe if you’re growing something new for the first time or whatever, then yeah, okay. But keep that shit to yourself. I mean, I don’t know about anybody else, but I’m sick of checking every single inch of my plants to make sure that there’s no male parts anywhere. That’s not something I ever had to do until my current run, and I’m only doing that now because something hermed during my last run and seeded everything. Never had to do that before. And I’m glad I have been checking, too, because I found four sacs on my Skycuddler Kush f3 last week (original asking price for one pack: $300; got it on sale for $150, which is still a shitload to pay for seeds).
I realize the seeds from this run will be given away for free, but I don’t think that really matters. Herms are unacceptable. There’s no reason to include plants that have hermed, whether it’s a genetic thing (doubtful; I’ve grown Goji twice and didn’t have any herms either time) or grower error, in this or any seed run. Shut it down, kill those plants, do not include any resultant seeds from those plants in the seed packs that’re being sent out. Period.
Sorry if i upset you.
I merely suggested that the plants in question be grown out for their flowers. I also suggested that i would be happy to accept the seeds in question should he grow out the plants. I never suggested that the seeds be sent out as part of a seed run.
Personally, I believe that inter-sexism cannot be bred out of cannabis. Many great breeders have tried and they suggest that they take every precaution against inter-sexism, and yet their seeds will still occasionally produce intersex plants when stressed, or environmentally challenged. In my opinion, it’s simply a matter of not enough ethylene being produced during flowering, which could have a myriad of causes, not just genetics.
This past summer, i had two auto flowers produce a few male flowers late in flowering. One was an Ace Northern lights/Malawi and the other was a Nirvana Northern Lights auto. Both breeders have exceptional reputations and neither plant has a reputation for inter-sexism. And yet, it happened. Were they stressed? Probably. They were exposed to harsh high elevation sunlight, extreme heat, extreme wind storms, overcrowding, attacks by aphids and spider mites and neighbors turning on their backyard lights at night. Shit happens. It certainly did not affect their potency or yield.
In another example, i have an ongoing multi-year project of crossing an abc with a Pine Tar Kush and am working on a second generation backcross. I’ve grown out dozens and dozens of these to completion. Neither parent nor offspring had ever produced an intersex flower. I accidentally left the door to their flower closet open a few hours past their bedtime a few weeks ago and a week later one of the six moms ( the best one) produced a few male flowers. First time ever. I plucked off the male flowers and put her into my garage to finish her out in seclusion. No reason to let the flowers go to waste. The other five are fine and doing well. Shit happens.
Just my two cents.
Word. I’m not upset. I was just saying, basically, that if herms are eliminated from parent plants, it decreases the chance of herms arising in the resultant seeds. That’s all. I wasn’t even directing my comment at you, necessarily, but you said it, so I commented on it haha.
Anyway, yeah. No worries. Again, I’m just watching this grow, not interested in the f2’s at all. I’ve been doing my best to keep my mouth shut, but sometimes I can’t help myself.
Hey, are you in organic soil? I don’t mean to be that guy, but I’ve seen this “chlorosis” before and I have been dealing with it a lot. What is happening is that your Phosphorus is in excess and it is causing lock-out. Look up “Phosphorus Toxicity” and you should run into terms like “Iron Chlorosis”, which looks like what you have going on. On Mulder’s chart, you can see the antagonisms. TM-7 works for some people, but I’ve never had luck with it. I would get my soil tested and Mn will still be deficient, but other micronutrients would be at toxic levels and it don’t take much to get there with Cu and B. Basically, I have all of the micronutrients in a sulfate form and I can add them individually w/o causing toxicity issues. If you feel that I am leading you in the right direction, you need to add Ca, Fe, Mn, Zn, and humic acid of some kind. You need a chelator for the micronutrients. Also, micronutrients are non-mobile in plant tissue, so you need to foliar feed. I’m not trying to be bossy or anything, but stay away from anything that P inputs for now. High Phosphorus will also keep your mycorrhizal(and other) fungi from growing. Normally, the plant will exude from the roots in exchange for nutrients, but with P and N toxicity it will not happen. I’m just trying to be helpful and I hope that I am not condescending or anything of that nature. Feel free to ask questions too. I don’t want you to butcher plants by experimenting, but you should atleast try a foliar spray. Maybe look into some high brix methods? High Brix is all about micronutrients. I read that Fe and Mn deficiency in cannabis can be detrimental and cause crop failure. Manganese might not be showing yet, but as soon as you hit it with Fe and Ca, you will have a def soon after. Not many people talk about this and folks at RIU laughed at me for getting my soil tested. If you have the cash for a soil test, that would be the best route lol. I’ve been using a soil agronomist and testing at Logan Labs. The agronomist gives soil recommendations with organic inputs, unlike big Ag(Logan Labs). Sorry for rattling on, I just had some free time today…
No worries.
I had to laugh at your last sentence. I should have that put on my headstone as my mouth has gotten me into more trouble than i can remember.
There is no light leaks in the room but I’m thinking it could be due to a couple things. It got alot colder this week and with the furnace kicking on the humidity dropped to about 40% from 60%. This is also my 1st run using jacks nutrients I haven’t quite nailed down the right feed yet.
I still have 5 males and 2 females if I pull the herms. I should have some clones taking of all the females that hermed I can run them again and see what happens.
what if it does though?
these thousands of packs may have been grown by people with production in mind. they found on keeper out of 11 seeds that is rock solid in sexual expression, but the other three, or five females were good, but had some nuts hanging off the bottom so weren’t kept, and therefore forgotten.
this grow playing out in real time in front of all of us, and everyone keeps parroting, ‘goji og isn’t known for herming, check for light leaks bro.’ when possibly the best setup room of the nine growers doing this just had 7 of 9 throw nuts on week 3 of flower. i’d say, let the evidence change our opinion instead of vice versa.
goji og just might be prone to intersex.
All strains might be prone to intersex if stressed out enough. I don’t think goji herms without big time grow issues though. Be it light leaks or w.e something is off.
Tough to say on the herms. I will say that with the limited amount of girls I ran, they were all sexually stable. I didn’t keep the males, so I couldn’t say on those.
No one should beat themselves up over it though, this kinda shit happens all the time with cannabis. I’d say it is best to not make seeds with any hermie plants though. It would be helpful to have full plant shots, and of both the tops and lowers though, just for the sake of information for this project.
My apologies about not being as involved in this thread as I had hoped. I have been dealing with some health issues this past couple of weeks.
I’m sorry to hear that so many of these Goji’s are showing intersex traits. That has got to be disappointing to the folks who volunteered their time, energy and grow space to doing this preservation process only to end up here.
I’m not sure we will know what is truly at cause here. I encourage everyone seeing herms to triple check your grow space. I had a issue where my dehumidifier would illuminate an LED indicator light when it was near full and this was enough to herm plants on that side of the room. Also it is very possible that it is genetically passed down. Since this is probably one of the larger seed runs we might just be seeing it more then a normal person popping 1 or 2 packs. So everyone else on team Goji be diligent and check those lowers!
Having said all that my focus is to keep thie project moving in a positive direction so I have asked all the team Goji members to not include hermi plants in any seed making activity. I want the community to feel very positive about growing out these F2’s.
So everyone watching this thread should know that any F2 seeds released down the road will be done so with any intersex showing plants having been culled and not included.
I appreciate the discussions going on this this thread. Its respectful and honest and is one of the reasons why I think this is the best cannabis board on the net. This is how we can keep moving forward to a fantastic end result.
Thank you again to everyone for has volunteered to grow these out and thank you for those along for the ride!
Opinion: If a plant herms due to simple environmental variables it ain’t worth saving. I’ve got clones I toss outdoors during winter to prove themselves before selecting keepers and running indoor. Any sign of intersex gets the axe. Period.
I’m not “blaming” you at all, so everybody ease up after I ask this question, but where did you get those Goji packs from? I’m legitimately just curious. I’m not saying anything about anything, not talking shit, not trying to “ruffle feathers” or whatever. I really am just curious where you got those packs from. If you remember. I know you said you got them like six years ago. I don’t remember where I got a lot of my packs from, either. Like, yesterday haha…
This is what I’m wondering as well. I have run through “4” packs of Goji in the past. The reason the 4 is in quotes is one came from a seed bank from Spain. Of the 12 seeds in the pack I had 9 females, 8 of them tossed nanners and the 1 remaining was no where near a goji plant. The other packs were from US vendors, and they were all legit Goji seeds.
No worries man and no offense taken. I got all of my Bodhi collection from Seed Vault of California and Shoe from Headie Gardens. Hard to say how many (or which) packs came from which sources (not something I kept note of) but I can tell you both sources are rock solid as Bodhi distributors and the seeds came to me in the green baggie with gold label we all have come to love.
For my long term storage process, I removed the seeds from their baggie and put them in small glass vials with a tiny bit of cotton and then some color changing desiccant ontop. Lid was screwed on and then the whole vial was vacuumed sealed and put into a dedicated seed fridge in the basement.
It’s an interesting occurrence for sure and honestly not one I thought about or had a plan in place to deal with. But lifes funny that way sometimes. So best we can do is just roll with the punches.
I think it’s the Nepali OG to blame. I’m not at all surprised to see a bunch of goji’s herm here. As I said previously, I’ve seen herms in the Goji derivatives. I’ve also seen it in the mother’s milk that’s from the same Nepali OG mom. No light leaks, talking organic water only soil in 7 gallon pots and still happened, while other plants in the same mix in the same room didn’t.
There are definitely solid plants to be found here, but there are herms too. If you dig deep enough, you’ll find other reports of goji’s herming for people virtually since the day bodhi released it. They just get buried by the hype.
Thanks everyone for the kind words and encouragement.
Yep, I have clones of everything.
We learn everyday. Sometimes the hard way. I’m
taking this as one of those lessons that every single person has to learn when they start doing something for the first time.
Seed plants… I believe I will try to run them again.
Thanks for the kind words in your post bud… I’ve noted the plants that didn’t show intersex but I may run the whole lot again. Will explain below…
Ya I’ve had the day to reflect and I believe light was getting into the tent room for the adjacent room through a stubborn door that wouldn’t stay closed. I believe the intersex traits were due to grower error. More specifically, my error. The light from the adjacent room has never affected any of my previous grows so that is making me believe that these plants are very sensitive to light stress. The light that leaks into the grow room is not very visible from inside the tent. Trust me, I checked before the plants were even in the tent. Before every grow I shut myself inside the tent for 3-5 mins and just sit there in the dark to make sure I can’t see any leaks. With the light coming into the room through the door it’s barely visible… but I guess visible enough to cause enough stress on this occasion. The only other thing to note is that it got suddenly really cold where I live. Neb mentioned it earlier. I have a Bluetooth hygrometer in the tent that allows me to track temp and humidity. Avg daily temps dipped within the last week so that also may have been a factor. I can’t think of any other reason tbh and trust me, if there was one I’d disclose it.
I think you may be confusing the pics of my male with the pics of the lower sacks on my intersex plants.
Sure thing. I took pics tonight but need to organize them. I’ll try to post them tmrw.
It’s honestly no worries… I just upset with myself mostly. I tried to have everything dialed in as much as possible. I put maximum effort into this and one small mistake and it’s all over for seed making for now. Not the end of the world though. I’ll learn big time from this mishap and move on. My plan now is to grow these out and make detailed reports on the phenotypic expressions. Even if I did run the clones tmrw there’s no way I’m making the spring seed box. I want a shot at running the whole lot again to see if it will make a difference.
I would warn the others to keep diligent. These genetics may be sensitive to light leaks and cooler temps. Definitely keep an eye on those lowers.
I took a bunch of detailed pics tonight and will post tmrw.
Anyway, this chapter ends and the story continues…
