Dear everyone,
I am very confused if the “high” could be considered as a trait that could be breed or it is a combination/result of other traits ( calix/ratio, resin, steam etc)…?
Let’s assume I have a herb which high is exactly what I am looking for.
How can I apply Hardy- Weinberg or Punniet to it?
How can I figure it out if the high is a homozygous Dom/rec or heterozygous?
How can I breed those traits that are not “visible” or trackable during growing/selection?
Many thanks
You’ll have to grow it all out and smoke it. Make sure the effects are what you’re looking for.
100%, that’s what I look for over anything else. Knowing the genetics is the first step; Nevil’s Haze is going to make you feel very different from Apple Fritter. Understanding and mapping effects to regions and heirlooms gives you a palate to work with.
Great topic imo, I too would like to hear examples of bringing say, effects from one plant into another and how selections worked out…
I’d much rather breed high than buy high… 420 sales fucked with my wallet.
You’re overthinking it IMO. Plus, the answers to a lot if your questions are, it depends. Mainly because the high is so complex and relies on a variety of compounds and factors.
The best and simplest way is to find that high you like and then cross it to another strain with a high you like. When you hunt through the progeny you’ll likely see some that lean towards one plant or the other and then combos in between. It often depends on how dominant the particular plant is.
Love this response, brother! Shines a little light on what breeders go through to move their line forward even 1 generation. Experience growers understand, newbs, are clueless.
1st cross is a chuck and a prayer. Followed by a lot of culling.
THEN “autos” throw a whole different wrench into the system. If you work with them.
Interesting answer.
The point is that from a breeding point of view map the genotype through generations is what is all about.
Without it there is no structured breeding project that can bring you to something…
…so how to map the high.
You can’t just tray the smoke of the progeny you need to understand how dominant or recessive the trait you want to work with are affecting the high…
But what you are looking for? If there is nothing to look at? (Apparently)
To me the high is one of those “traits” that as per DJ Short are part of breeding as an art and not as a science.
You can’t punnet it, it’s a complex series of traits, so it’s a numbers game of getting each generation to have a greater proportion of the phenotypes you are after. You can also try and backcross to a recurrent parent with the traits you are wanting.
Fixing multiple polygenic traits with predictable certainty is difficult, though sometimes groups of traits will cluster together to make life a little easier.
Just keep selecting for the high you like.
This 
If you’re interested in how to work with polygenic traits the best source of information is on dog and horse breeding. They work with a lot of polygenic traits.
What you are after is the word Chemovar, the chemical makeup of the plant. I would say that most of the breeders are trying to work with the chemovar, if it’s terps or Cannabinoids or a mix.
Pz 
So in definitive, which traits are we breeding that are really linked with high? Resin production. Calix ratio?what else?
If my intent is to breed only for high, as the high is the only thing I am looking at…maybe breeding is not the best way and more hacking serendipity is the path.
Not looking to breed true for seeds, but looking for a keeper on the way?
Not looking to reproduce the strain
Sounds like it’s pretty straightforward just finding a cut you like and holding it?
The high is it’s own thing. No way resin production or calyx shape will tell you anything at all about what the high is like. Only smoking it will tell you that.
Smoke the male flowers if you wanna know what high your male has. Reverse him if you wanna know what scents and resin he has. Same with a girl if you were making fems. It’s like progeny testing, there is no easy way around it.
You can’t, both don’t handle any exogenous factor or even the real modulo of the scale. They are mathematical demonstration invoked all the time for anything else that their initial purpose.
Take care, reading the making-of in the context with Bateson at the commands greatly help to best consider this old discovery.
Just in smoking the harvest. But i’m sure i don’t get the full depth of the question on this one.
Everything is under your eyes, constantly. You just have to map it. Even invisible “traits”, the plant is a whole equation with cascading factors. You will always find a reliable pattern linked with what you’re hunting, it’s a question of time spent on observations and constancy in notes.
You just formulated the notion of strategy of breeding. Both apply in their respectives uses. A trait is a conceptual block of information more or less filled, by choice.
Breeding for purple hues ?
Choice 1 : quantitative breeding by visual selection
Choice 2 : mapping the purple
i hope it help ;o)
Thanks Fuel!
What about terpenes?
Could they be used as a reference for high?
Yes terpenes can help guide you
A lot of things can guide you, you’ve demonstrated knowledge of breeding basics, so you must understand that polygenic traits are not identified or tracked easily…
And so, you must track these with multiple methods as mentioned above. Smoke test of males and females. Looking for which traits line up with what effects, regardless of which “type” of trait it is.
The whole world of cannabis breeding is research and discussion on how to identify what traits are linked, and so forth.
You are asking for a simple answer, but the answer is more like you are in a maze, everybody is in an unique maze, but if you track your steps you can find your way out.
Breeders outcross or incross with multiple females, up to dozens, to test which traits or effects carry forward. Line breeders document what steps they take to preserve their preferred traits. They make a dozen f2 or f3 variations to find what was lost or gained. They self the plants.
There is no simple answer, only observation and documentation on a continual basis
For example
OGKB is well known on the scene, but is it understood as a genetic or breeding tool?
In related lines, you can see slow vegging “ducksfoot” OGKB mutants, as they are commonly called
So in this specific case the ducksfoot leaf morphology identifies potentially desirable plants with intense terpene production and effects.
But it also identifies typically slow vegging mutated plants
Because these unique lines are newer and the understanding is incomplete, it’s possible that other traits or standout plants are overlooked because of the ducksfoot trait is seen as desirable or not to certain people.
This is an extremely long winded way or saying that the cannabis plant is not yet completely studied or understood. We pass around information about breeding but a lot of it is tribal knowledge that may have poor or useless application.
You will have to verify your results and your desired outcomes yourself or with your team. Some people find lab testing helpful to see the quantifiable compounds on paper.
As was mentioned, what you are trying to select for is a particular chemovar, the issue with this is that the cellular mechanics and the genes that drive the exact mix of cannabanoids and terps etc are invisible to the breeder. Things like resin production, density of trichromes per a given area etc, are not so much primary traits as secondary ones, they don’t give you any visibility of the chemovar. Sometimes if you’re lucky you might find that groups of traits will cluster, so you might get something like smell, or particular structure that seems to group with the invisible traits you are chasing. If you are chasing just a particular effect, find the plant that does it, and repeatedly back cross to it and test the progeny for effect.