Your absolutely right! 
3 Likes
I get average humidity of 68% down here. Fortunately it’s usually above 70 degrees and I have the kick ass ocean breeze pretty much on the daily. Unfortunately, we get May gray and June gloom every year when it’s humid and lower temps gave me botrytis in one zinnia and pm on all of them. I’m hoping for a warm fall as my Dragon’s blood hashplant and strawberry diesels are gonna finish well into November. These make me a bit nervous regarding bud rot outdoors in my hood.
I would assume adding a shit load of fans and some sort of fresh air intake would be key to indoor growing.
@CLOSETGROWTH Nice post! Very informative and thorough.
7 Likes
Thank you very much!
Also I did read about something that the owners of vineyards are spraying to prevent that disease. Here it is:
Another method commonly used is the application of a bordeaux mixture made up of copper sulfate and slaked line. This is what most vineyard owners use to keep gray mold under control. Copper soap or copper spray is another option that can actually be used all the way until your plant’s day of harvest. This works best when it is sprayed onto your plants each week for ten days. Finally, you can either use sulfur burners or spray your plants with sulfur in order to make the treatment airborne. You can find these at a garden center or nursery.
https://www.ilovegrowingmarijuana.com/marijuana-diseases-gray-mold-bud-rot-botrytis/
On that site they also mention Potassium Bicarbonate (KHCO3) .
Does anybody know something about the two methods?
What is BT?
Also is Lactobacillus (LAB) and Chitosan good for spraying on the leaves? (I use rockwool cubes with ebb and flow)
Where to get Chitosan?
2 Likes
bacillus thuringiensis
2 Likes
On the subject of botrytis and the molds and fungi you have to battle to get to harvest…
1)Temps
2)RH
3)pH- pm I battle with water spray pH’d to be acidic (vinegar water) applied to areas surrounding.
Suggested prevention also are neem(cold pressed) and horticultural oils for direct sprays and address first two above?
4) pests- spread disease as well as attack the plant.
Haven’t seen pH listed as a vector to fight the botrytis.
3 Likes
Botrytis allii
Botrytis carnea
Botrytis cinerea
Botrytis fabae
Botrytis artocarpi
Botrytis anacardii
Botrytis ampelophila
2 Likes
Yup…LAB and Chitosan foliar but you can also give it to the soil…
1 Like
BT is sold easily as Monterey brand caterpillar pesticide
2 Likes
I did find two products: BT subspecies aizawai and BT subspecies israelensis. Which one is better for bud rot? Can I spray it at end of flower? Will it mess with the taste?
How to use neem oil? I thought it will change the taste of the buds?
Great info. I just had a bud rot issue with my super dense skunk top nugs. I believe after reading your info that my nightly temps dip into the 65 range. A few degreees to low. Need to adjust. Thanks man!
6 Likes
BT is for caterpillars(foliar) and fungus gnats(soil). Neither are for budrot but spraying ANY thing in flower can CREATE budrot… therefore adding the strepto-whatever is supposed to negate it.
I’ll use it up to about wk3 of flower although have been advised to take it out to wk 5-6 due to caterpillar life cycles.
I’m afraid of taste issues AND the budrot.
5 Likes
Spraying neem oil will make the bud hairs shrivel up, and Yes, it will make the buds taste kinda funny. May have different opinions out there, But, I wont use neem oil on any of my plants. For a major spider mite infestation maybe… last resort.
3 Likes
ok. Anybody have experience with lactobacillus? Or anything else you can spray which does not affect health of consumer and taste of buds?
Lactobacillus Serum
This is the workhorse of the beneficial bacteria we’ll be discussing here. We use it for everything! Foul odors, clogged drains, cheaper pig/chicken/etc farming, aquaculture, the applications are amazingly diverse. Learn how to make and use this and you will have a powerful tool in your farming arsenal.
How to Make:
Get container, fill halfway with rice-wash. Rice wash is the water leftover when you rinse fresh rice. For example, go buy rice, whatever kind, bring it home, put it in a pot with warm water, swirl it a bit and then drain the [now milky colored] water. The water is now a rich source of carbohydrates. In this step, you can substitute rice with another carbohydrate source if you don’t have rice, as long as it is complex (don’t use simple carbohydrates like sugar, honey, syrup, molasses, etc). You can use wheat, barley, kinoa, other carbohydrates as the base to make your carbohydrate wash. This wash will attract microbes from the air, among them lacto bacilli.
Cover loosely and let stand for a couple days to a week
When is it done? When you see a light film on top (molds) and it smells a little sour and forms 3 layers. This is indicating the rice wash is infected with various microbes. This happens more quickly in warm temperatures because microbes are more active. Thus it is all relative since we don’t do this in controlled laboratory conditions.
The layers are distinct
Top layer: floating carbohydrates leftover from fermentation and possibly molds
Middle layer: Lactic Acid and other bacteria (cheese buffs will recognize this as a makeshift “rennet”). We will use this layer.
Bottom layer: Starch, byproduct of fermentation
Extract the middle layer using a siphon. This layer contains the highest concentration of lactic acid bacteria and lowest concentration of the unneeded byproducts
Get a new container, larger than the first. Take the extracted serum from the last step and mix it with 10 parts milk. By saturating with milk (lactose), we dissuade other microbes from proliferating, leaving L. bacilli. E.G. if you have 1cup of the serum, mix it with 10cups milk.
TIP: The best milk to use in unpasteurized natural milk. However, any milk will do, even powdered milk. In our experience, the best is unpasteurized natural but just use what is available. We just want to saturate with lactose to promote L. bacilli bacteria.
You want to keep this stage anaerobic as much as possible. You can use something like rice bran, barley bran, wheat bran, etc sprinkled on top of the milk. I use a sealed container with a one-way valve. Note: Beware of bubbling during this phase. It can lead to overflows if you filled to near the top. It can go through the one-way valves so keep an eye on it and don’t do this step around nice things.
After about 1 week (temp dependent), you’ll see curds (made of carbohydrate, protein, and fat) on top of the milk. The water below will be yellow colored – this is whey, enriched with lactic acid bacteria from the fermentation of the milk.
NOTE: Microbes like L. bacilli are more active in warmer temperatures. The curds you see are a byproduct of the fermentation process. Fermentation is generally associated with microbial processes under anaerobic(no oxygen) conditions. Now, L. bacilli is a facultative anaerobe, that is it can live and work with or without oxygen, but less competition in anaerobic conditions.
The water below(whey+lacto) is the good stuff. You want to extract this. You can either skim the curds off the top, pour through a strainer, or whatever other methods to accomplish that
NOTE: Remember the curds, or byproduct of milk fermentation by L. bacilli, are great food. They are full of beneficial microbes like L. bacilli. Feed the curds to the soil, compost pile, plants, animals, humans – whoever wants them! They are full of good nutrients/microbes. No waste in natural farming.
To preserve at room temperature, add an equal part sugar/molasses to the serum. So, if you have 1L of serum, add 1kilo sugar or 1L molasses. Otherwise store in fridge to keep.
Example Recipe:
1 L rice wash
add 10L Milk
After rice wash and milk remove curds – around 1L
Left with 10L pure LAB (lactic acid bacteria)
add 10kg sugar or 10L molasses
= 20 L stabilized lactic acid bacteria serum
What to Use it for and How
Before using, first mix 1:20 with water. 1 part serum to 20 parts water. Then follow instructions below:
Odor Reducer:
Add mixture to animal’s water at 2tbsp/L. You can mix it more or less, there are no rules here, just how we typically do it.
Apply to places where there is odor buildup. The harmless bacteria “eat” the odor causing germs and the smell is gone!
Indoors: reduces foul odors, including animals like cats, dogs, mice, other pets. Stinky shoes? Wet clothes from being outside? Gym clothes that haven’t made it to the wash yet? Smoker in the house? Kill these nasty smells!
Outside: use to control odor in pens – pigs, cows, chickens. In barns, around the yard, etc
Household use:
Clear clogged drains: dump mixture into drain to clear clogs. Exact amount depends on the clog, haha. A few tbsp to 1L works well. For semi-clogged drains (like kitchen sink draining progressively slower), use at night and allow at least the night for microbes to work.
Keep septic clear. Tired of having your septic system drained? Add lacto! Depending on size of your system, pour a few tbsp. to a few L into the toilet every few months.
Houseplants: Mix 2-3tbsp per 1L water and use that to water them.
Animal Bedding:
Mix 2tbsp to 1L water. Mix with animal bedding to reduce smell and increase longevity. In natural pig farming we use at least 1 yard deep of bedding so there is plenty of space for microbes to work. Bedding consists of organic substrate like rice hulls, wood chips, sawdust, wood shavings, shredded corn cob, any other high cellulose, high lignin material. Natural pig farming is a future topic on this site. Spray until bedding is slightly damp but not wet. How much you spray really depends on your climate. If you are in a very dry climate you can spray a little more and mix in evenly. Wetter (more humid) climates use a bit less. Mix into the bedding evenly where necessary (in many cases, like with pigs and chickens, they’ll mix it themselves). How much you use is all relative. These guidelines are for pigs and chickens. More extreme smells, just use more! Want to spray less often, use more! As we notice a smell we spray. Thus, as pigs grow bigger, make more poop, we spray more often! Dosage/frequency is relative and will depend on your situation.
Animals – Digestive/Growth Aid:
Mix 2tbsp to 1L water, then add that mixture to animal’s water at 2tbsp/L(so the animal’s water contains little less than a quarter tsp/L of lacto serum). But this is very flexible. The Lacto serum is not harmful, so its just about adding enough to be effective, without wasting it.
Improve digestive efficiency in humans and animals alike:
Improves how you feel after meals, particularly meals rich in meats. It’s awesome. After eating, mix 1-2tbsp lacto with a cup of water and drink that. Makes you feel so much better after! Lessens that afternoon lull, gives you more energy!
Aids digestion in animals. This is critical. You can raise animals on less food, and see the same and greater growth rates. Amazing results in pigs . The principal is that the microorganisms help digest the food coming in – better digestibility means better nutrient absorption. Save on feeds, better feed to growth conversion ratio!
TIP: If you really want to boost growth, mix 2tbsp to 1L water and soak the food in this solution for a few hours to a few days. Food is pre-digested when animals eat it, AWESOME!
Great results in livestock and poultry.
Plants – Growth Aid:
When added to water for plants, nutrient uptake efficiency is increased, which increases growth!
Improves growth of plants when applied as foliar spray and soil drench. Improves their efficiency in uptaking nutrients so naturally, growth is enhanced. With the use of these microorganisms, the nutrients you spray or drench to feed your plants become more bio-available and easily absorbable by the plants. Technically, you can say that plants do not use organic nutrients directly. Microorganisms convert organic nutrients to their inorganic constituents which the plants utilize. Utilizing microbes, you will notice better plant growth and health.
Disease Resistance:
This is a consequence of the increased efficiency of nutrients. More nutrients available at smaller metabolic cost.
Lacto suppresses harmful bacteria in food/water that animals consume, enhances their gut flora so that line of defense is working optimally, etc.
Aid Compost:
Mix 2tbsp/L and spray on compost pile to improve decomposition. This is a huge topic that will be expanded upon in another post.
Aid Organic Fertilizer:
Add 1-2tbsp per gallon water-nutrient solution. Lacto consumes organic nutrients making them bio-available to plant roots.
Plants don’t use organic fertilizer! Microbes break it down to inorganic constituents, and plants take those up. This product makes that process more efficient.
Aquaculture:
Lacto works in aquaculture just fine if you don’t have BIM available. Add lacto at roughly 1L per 700m3 of fish-containing water. Example: you have a pond that averages 20m wide by 30m long by 2m deep. So, 20 x 30 x 2 = 1200m3. In this case you would add roughly 1L of BIM or Lacto
Microbes digest fish wastes, cleaning up water and improving water quality.
Allows fish to grow larger due to digestive efficiency
Allows higher population of fish in the same amount of water! Literally, increases the carrying capacity of your body of water! This is awesome for aquaculture setups
13 Likes
Bottomline,… Spraying with lactobacillus culture from 10% nonfat milk kills it all… But, it works best for powdery mildew… Good luck 
1 Like
Very interesting reading 
, thanks for sharing … 
3 Likes
Thank you very much
What you mean, tired of draining the septic? What can the bacteria do?
It breaks down the solids. There are branded bacteria additives that you can add regularly to keep it pretty cleaned out. This is basically a DIY version that probably works better too.
2 Likes