I am so excited my female legitimo produced it first seed.
These small female legitimo plants flowered early and stopped growing leaves. I pollinated with male legitimo and there’s about 10 seeds growing total. The leaves mostly died the plant is just a stem, cones, and seeds now. Here is my 2nd generation legitimo seed:
Congratulations! 
This thread is so cool!
How did the seed formation go? Even If they spontaneously aborted, the pre aborted embryos have some useful potential for embryo rescue and embryogenesis.
This interspecific hybridization technique is a common one for the production of double haploid plants in other plant species bc it’s the incompatibility of the genes being the reason they abort and on the flip side their shared ancestors that allow the pollen tubes to begin the fertilisation process.
If you ‘rescue’ i.e. harvest the pre aborted seed and put it into a growth medium it should in theory be possible to propagate plants that only contain the genetics of the mother, a haploid plant, this is then gene doubled to give you a double haploid and completely homozygous plant, without needing to go to F12 or whatever.
It’s like one of the holy grails of plant breeding/improvement, y’all may not fully realise it but these experiments are groundbreaking stuff!
Whoa. Cool stuff. Do you happen to do invitro work too? Ive been thinking about getting the hormones and nutes etc to get started but theres a lot to it
I’ve only dabbled unfortunately as a proper sterile lab environment is needed, I’ve done tissue culturing for orchids and am definitely going to have a look at it for weed as soon as I can get myself set up.
It’s just this technique of ‘wide crossing’ is something I’ve read about which is basically what you guys are doing with the hops. If the hop pollen is causing the seed to form and then abort then it may be that this technique is possible.
Of course then what is required is a protocol of hormones etc to culture the undeveloped embryos to differentiate and grow, and also a mutagen like colchicine to duplicate the chromosomes and then bam, a plant with every chromosome identical and an IBL that will breed true.
Here is an article on the process:
Cheers mate, I love reading a good paper, time for me to crawl through the weeds for a bit! 
Thanks for sharing that article. Yes my abc seeds pollinated by the vine formed duds. It’s hard to get a picture, looks like sesame seeds formed
I am going to try this hybrid again once I have more legitimo pollen. and the article you shared gives me an idea.
I have colchicine, and also 3,5d oryzalin. which are both similar to the 2,4d used in that article. I will try pollinating the abc with legitimo again, then use 3,5d either added diluted into soil, or sprayed onto the buds once the seeds begin to form.
I get it now after reading, that these chromosome-doubling chemicals are so weak in small doses, they aren’t damaging. and instead can power proper cell division.
So the legitimo abc hybrid seed won’t be able to grow because of the different DNA being too weak. Then the diluted 2,4d or 3,5d will “power” that missing cell division without destroying the seed–Because these chemicals apply all of their force to the cell division system. Which is why they are used also to create non-hybrid tetraploid cells in a lab.
I’m not sure if anyone has read my posts on Orange Grove, but it throws some majorly hoppy resins…I mean mixed with alcohol I’m not how sure how easily one could distinguish it from hops…
What I am trying to say is I think Orange Grove would be a great potential cross with these 
…maybe the Orange Grove x GG4 could be even better.
That’s it exactly, you might have to experiment with a few different agents/ratios to get them to work but it should be doable.
Here is another paper on a similar idea except for using pollen, it has details about the kind of growth medium to use. It might also be worthwhile looking up the process of embryo rescue, but basically about removing the shell to get at the embryo. Some kind of magnification and micro surgical tools may be the go.
I’m definitely going to be keeping an eye on this thread!!
I’ve done a little tissue culture of rare orchids and found that a chemical called Thidiazuron is useful for orchids that are difficult to culture, it works as a potent synthetic auxin and cytokine hormone, there should be some good information out there on its use also…
Here is another article on the process for getting orchid ‘seeds’ to sprout.
My second generation legitimo seed sprouted today. It took 6 months to germinate outdoors in soil.
Here is an old picture of the 1st generation legitimo cone that made the seed
My legitimo seedling is 6 weeks old and already making a female cone. I only have this 1 plant so thankfully it is female. I am surprised it is only 2 inches tall and flowering. With only 5 sets of leaves, and the leaves are very small.
This plant came from a seed that I made using my 1st generation legitimo female, pollinated by both a male legitimo and some male ABC plants. Maybe that’s why the leaves are small?
It is growing in a cup of dirt inside a ziploc bag to increase humidity. In East Asia where the plant grows wild, the summer humidity average is above 70% . I was hesitant to use the ziploc bag because of mold, but legitimo is doing really well with the extra humidity, no mold either. With a heating pad the soil temperature is around 80F with light on and 70F light off.
Wow that’s awesome. Made with abc pollen. Did you isolate the ones that were made with the legitimo pollen vs abc? How many seeds?
continuing to provide occasional bummer commentary,
I’m still 99.9% certain that the legitimo is just hops, not a cannabis hops hybrid. If the plant was pollinated by both legitimo and ABC, I am 99.9% certain that the cannabis pollen didn’t take, and we are still just looking at a hops plant.
I respect the effort and persistence though.
I used the legitimo pollen to pollinate ABC before, but the seeds that grew were small and didn’t fully form.
When I placed all the ABC males near the legitimo vines, it stopped forming new cones and the existing cones all went into seed making mode. Just my observation that the pollen from ABC seems to affect the female legitimo cones to the point that they will stop making more cones, and the cones began making seeds.
My legitimo male was so small I didn’t get much pollen from it, so I placed the ABC next to the hops to pollinate the rest of the cones and it seemed to work.
I don’t have any more male legitimo so for my current legitimo female, I will either use the ABC pollen or beer hops pollen from my humulus lupulus hops male.
I agree it is possible this is just a standard humulus japonicus . The pollen from cannabis and humulus japonicus is affecting both plants while I am growing them next to each other
Hey! I’m massively into mutant cannabis. I started looking around for people doing this hybridization and I should have known I would boomerang back to OG! Do you have any updates? Any massive bag of seeds you need someone to trial for you? Haha but seriously, I’m super glad to benefit from your experience. Super cool!
