Cannabis Fermentation

Advanced Techniques
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#1

This is a thread to talk about all types of cannabis fermentation, specifically ferments that transform the chemical composition of cannabis and alter the effect. This includes traditional ferments (sweat ferments like cob, thai stick, and other tropical sweat ferments, as well as handrubbed compressed hash) and any new method or experimental techniques you may have come up with, whether anchored in tradition or not.

I started with cob curing, but on the experimental side, I have had success transforming the chemical composition of cannabis in positive ways with fermenting cannabis flower in honey kombucha for vegetable oil extraction, fermenting cannabis infused coconut oil in coconut milk kefir, and using cannabis flower in my homemade rice wine.

I am curious if anyone else has come up with their own fermentation processes for cannabis or if there are traditional techniques and practices that I am not aware of (most likely given cannabis’s long history and wide geographic distribution). Any relevant scientific research is also welcome. I hope we can explore the history, practice, and science of fermenting cannabis together!

CANNABIS FERMENTATION RESOURCES

Tangwena’s Cob Curing Thread

Overgrow Cob Curing Thread

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African landraces and heirloom thread
#2

Great idea!
Yes, I want to know more… :laughing:

Tracking

Cheers
G

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#3

Watching intently and super stoked about it :slight_smile: I’ve heard all kinds of stories about weird looking dark pot with black spots in it that got them higher than giraffe pussy :slight_smile: and through my research and studies lead me to believe it’s due to some fermentation process :slight_smile: thanks

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#4

In continuing from the African Landrace and Heirloom thread, I appreciate you for helping me understand more about the potential with yeast being able to synthesize the cannabinoids in a natural setting compared to how they’re building them up with more modern gene technologies to facilitate those results in more sterile settings. I feel like I’m getting the gist of all this but the actual applied science and fundamental knowledge base for much of all this aren’t things I’ve yet learned. Which factors and bacteria drive fermentation and things like that are all a bit over my head at the moment. Product of armchair research, GoogleFu, and a public library card. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

Conversations like these are very much appreciated.

This fermentation thing is all new to me and there is so much to learn. It’s so rad, I’m stoked. In the little I’ve been able to read the last day or so since finding interest in the topic and how it relates to cannabis I came across something that suggested the compounds of interest are often coined mVOC’s or microbial Volatile Organic Compounds and that some of them are quite potent in very small quantities so not only does it seem to not always require crazy large amounts to deliver significant effects, but it also makes testing for them a bit more challenging from what the literature I’ve read would suggest.

As it was mentioned before, that dank forest floor reference by @drgreensleeves. These environments in the humid tropics are quite literally colonized with bacteria for these fermentations to take place. One website specifically talking cobs mentioned the use of the part of the banana tree wrapping it’s trunk. Surely this natural material is teeming with its own unique combination of natural bacteria as well. Could it be likely that using various natural wrapping lends to unique attributes due to the various microbiome and mVOC produced by the varying bacterial populations of both the cannabis being fermented and the natural wrapping being used?

@Dirt_Wizard’s comment about fermenting in the stomach of a ruminant, in that example a goat, is touching on that I believe. I think?

I believe herding ruminants is a large part of food security for African tribes since antiquity so it’s pretty likely they wrapped some weed up in them for storage somehow. I know some parts of animals can be used as waterproof bags or pouches, could a ruminants stomach be used for this too? Or did they use the goat skin and it’s just a matter of lost in translation?

Back in the day it seems that people would do their own sort of quick ferment of wine in bags made of sheep skin. Everything touches. This is wild. Much love

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#5

Hmmm. I wonder if lactobacillus fermentation would be possible … and what would be the result? Is there a relation to cob curing?

Lactobacillus fermentation, e.g. similar to making sauer kraut, hot sauce, …

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#6

There are likely lactobacillus involved in the cob fermentation process since it is anaerobic and there is an initially acidification of the cob that occurs, but I don’t have testing to back it up. The rice wine and kombucha ferments I do both contain lactobacillus, though they are not the dominant organisms - I have an especially lactic homemade rice wine mold/yeast/bacteria starter that I have meant to use to ferment a high cannabis concentration rice wine and hope to this year. It would be interesting to do some experiments with salt fermenting fresh and cured flower and kief at a lower salinity in brine or packed with salt, filtering, drying, then extracting into vegetable oil or ethanol for edible consumption.

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#7

I’m glad you brought up the black spots (likely a black mold) because there is the mycotoxic side of cannabis fermentation where some of the psychoactive properties come from fungal toxins, usually those produced by molds living in the soil. It can happen in sweat ferments that aren’t as carefully controlled and allowed to be more wet/aerobic. I have regrettably made a few mycotoxic cobs (the leafy shake ones I described in the other thread) that weren’t properly done and developed white mold blooms when exposed to air. The effect was stupefying/psychedelic/doomy when eaten, but it also felt hard on the body in a way that reminded me of my exposure to other mycotoxins from gardening and I would not recommend anyone here attempt it. Something for everyone to keep in mind, especially with sweat ferments, we do not want anyone making themselves sick.

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#8

Yes, seasonally nomadic or settled herding societies are extremely common across Africa, often coexisting with settled agrarian or forest/jungle hunter-gatherer/wildcrafting populations. And yes, the stomach of mammals has been a common waterproof storage pouch for millennia, you will see biblical and Greek/Roman references to it all the time, calf or lamb skin leather bindings and flax or hemp paper kept in a protective cured stomach pouch to keep the book waterproof.

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#9

Really an interesting thread here! I’m definitely along for the ride. Thank you for starting it, @holygroveseed!

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#10

Awesome topic, thanks for starting it. I’ve been interested in this for a while, I’ll be in the back taking notes.

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#11

Happy to see all the enthusiasm for this! Hope we get some of the more experienced cob fermenters from the community in here if they’re willing to share their input. I plan to also document some of the experimental cannabis ferments I’m doing and post recipes when they’re refined if people are interested in that. Right now I’m working on figuring out what the hard limit is for cannabis concentration by mass in rice wine ferments without breaking the fermentation process.

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#12

Good reminder that mold can be incredibly dangerous, and sometimes a single exposure can kill you or ruin your body permanently.

Much like mold on food, it’s not highly toxic mold 98% of the time, but you have no idea when you hit that 2%, and that doesn’t necessarily mean that 98% is good for you either.

Be careful out there boys and girls

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#13

Yes, it should be noted that my behavior at the time was reckless and by no means should anyone attempt to follow my example. There’s a good reason that Tangwena and the traditional cob ferments he draws from have specific techniques for avoiding mold contamination, replacing corn husks possibly contaminated with fusarium with vac sealer bags for better sanitation and easier visual inspection. It is less of a risk with other cannabis ferments where there are existing microbial cultures, acid, or salt that inhibit the growth of other pathogenic microbes and molds, which is why I drew particular attention to sweat ferments.

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#14

Yep, probably the hardest part… or really, the only part, the whole challenge… getting those conditions just right. I have never mastered it, hopefully someday I’ll meet someone who has.

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#15

that 2% isn’t necessarily going to kill you though. i’ve done all sorts of shit i would not recommend others try as well. but of course that was back when i was young and invincible.

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#16

I am in the same boat and hoping I can learn more and refine my process.

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#17

When i did a lowtech grow in Lake county, I sorayed with EM-1 (lacto and pnsb) quite a bit.
At harvest, plants were put in garbage bags and stored in a hot garage for a day or two, then hung on tomato cages in the sun to dry.
Some of the best weed ever, had that strong skunk smell.
If u look back to prohibition days, weed was stored anywhere - even in random cars - where it slightly fermented then was quick dried. I mimicked that and it was interesting and worth refining.
I think the slow dry and careful curing of modern MMJ/Rec days led to losing those rks terps. Just an idea and anecdote

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#18

To just sum it up nice and clean like, Yes. :slight_smile: Ok hold on to your hat because this is where the rabbit hole gets deep :slight_smile: so each different plant species has different simbiotice bacteria/microbes that live on, in even inside cells and they can also interchange and exchange DNA and all kinds of narly like quantum physics stuff :slight_smile: like the trichromes for instance is full of all kinds of probiotics and super antioxidants that doesn’t work up the stalk to form it has this quantum tunneling effect like wow :flushed: lol bro and that’s just barely scratching the surface it, this line of thought gets super deep and I love it! :slight_smile: I can find you some white papers but it will take me a while oh and before I forget in order to find these the plant (wraps also corn , banana maybe canna lilly ect) they must be grown all natural, beyond organic, no pesticides none of that or they won’t be present :slight_smile:

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#19

I have been increasingly chopping my drying plants up earlier than before and packing them into Sterilite totes to burp down from 65% RH for a few weeks and I think it has increased my terps in the finished buds, anecdotally.

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#20

Thanks for this confirmation. Using some of your keywords were helpful in putting me onto some research materials that highlight just as you’re describing. There’s a cool antiquated picture I saw online titled “Water”, in black and white describing the following scene, the quotes from the Peabody collection extension of the Harvard university website:

Water": Boy carrying a water bag made from an animal stomach and another bag on a digging stick on his shoulder, view from behind (print is a cropped image)

Written in pencil on photograph (verso): “L. K. Marshall / A !Kung boy carrying water from the water hole / to the werf in bags made from (front) the stomach / and (back) the skin of some animal.* / This picture was used on a government 1 1/2 d stamped / postal card by South West Africa / 99/2 / 99-2 / * We have seen the skins of wart hogs made into / such bags and the stomachs of any animal”; stamped on photograph

This item seems quite resourceful and the technique would surely be passed down through tradition as it’s a survival skill in a harsh landscape. The knowledge available for some time after even if cultural settings and lifestyle changes, modifying with changing times and available resources. I saw one claim on another website that mentioned these types of bags are waterproof and breathable at the same time although not sure how accurate that is.

The preparation of these bags in of themselves are in a way managing bacterial populations to achieve the desired result. A useable bag that’s not rotting and putrid smelling, that’s not hosting unwanted bacterial populations. The skill of managing bacterial populations for many items sourced from the land seems to be well honed in Africa and applying the various techniques to cannabis would seem likely. Much love

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