I know this has been spoken about a lot and there are different opinions on either side but with new information coming to light every year and knowledge improving I think it’s good to see where everyone’s thoughts are on this topic.
For years I swore by never 're’cloning and always keeping mother stock, ideally keeping the original chosen pheno in seed form as the mother. I was under the belief that each time something is cloned off a clone it’s full genetic profile is weakened. I’ve since heard this is not true.
My current situation doesn’t allow me to keep mother plants, not enough room unfortunately. So each time something goes in to flower I take a few cuts then run them again. I’m running about 12 varieties at the moment trying to narrow that down to what is best in my climate and what I like to smoke.
What I noticed first is the genetics have improved over a few runs mainly because the conditions changed from indoor to out… my main question is: is there any proof genetics are weakened by continual cloning off a clone? And if anyone has done it for years I’m curious to hear your observations and results
I do not believe in the reduction of genetics from cloning. The genetic material has not changed. You are simply rooting a growth tip from an existing plant.
I think this idea came when people rooted from weak or diseased plants, and this was passed on to their new clones.
I think its bunk. Not a scientist lol. Lookforward to hearing from others.
I dunno that you will find much degradation of a strain over time from clone-to-clone-to-clone. I have run the same source mother for about 8-10 years without any issues, usually running a mother for maybe 9 months to a year before starting over with a baby from her. The issue for me is a mommy getting rootbound and showing thin branching over time and the babies seeming to take a bit longer to grow large enough to become viable for moving to flower. That’s just me…I like strong, vibrant mothers who look like healthy teenagers and who can yield strong babies.
But I know of some growers who have run the same momma-from-momma for 20+ years without complaint. No degradation, no real change in her over time. It’s kinda weird when you think about it too much but it works just fine (smile).
Yeah genetically, the clones are 100% identical. There is no genetic loss or degradation within at least a 10 year timespan. Likely way longer.
Maybe If we can keep mom’s going for 100 years we’ll see cancer or genetic degradation pop up in plants but yeah most likely any degradation would come from an outside source, like getting your stock infected. Once that happens, all future clones will be infected too.
I was always told that cloning from clones each generation gets weaker. That said in order to keep genetics I try to keep a mother plant when I can but usually just end up taking cuttings off plant during veg or early flower. Can’t say that I’ve seen any drift or weakening so far.
Currently mine are getting healthier with more vigor each round, unfortunately the only guy I could find in my country with a clone menu couldn’t grow a healthy plant to save his life with covid preventing me from returning to Australia to pick up my seed bank in mum’s fridge I had to run his gear. Took about a year to turn them around but on track now
I cloned clones of clones for about 15 years. I’ll quote bugbee:
“clones are the only way to get a reliable crop.”
ok then… have you ever wondered where all the blueberries and grapes and fruit trees come from? Yah, clones.
How many generations of clones have grape vines undergone in the last 1000 years?
I do think it’s entirely possible genetics can degrade over time…just not at a rate that matters much for our purposes. If they can make it 30+ years and potentially hundreds of generations IDK if it’s worth worrying about.
Many people view it in a Lamarckian sense, taking smaller weaker branches over time results in smaller weaker plants, but I don’t think this is true, since even the oldest crappiest puniest clone imaginable grows just fine once it roots well and is in good growing environment.
Like any plant, clones can pick up viruses/viroids over the years, though that may impact growth. Not just hops virus either. Very new area of study, especially in our little corner.
Ive run clones off of clones for years. I havent kept a true mother but potency and everything stays on par. Gets better as i grow it over n over usually.
I have had two strains of mine over 14 years no issues , week plants can be brought back into good health the genetic material is there. People are witnessing disease , phenotypic plastation poor grow habits etc and blaming it on tired genetics,maybe old mom’s but make new young ones and it’s fine.
Well now … It seems that now is the time. I’m gonna out myself here in a very public way. This site is VERY seed oriented. Trading, chucking pollen, crossing. A whole lot of seed action. I like this site and the people here, it has a nice vibe. A tad bit sterile as compared to what I’m used to but that’s ok . Here’s the thing though, I have been living a secret life. A lie if you will. I am closeted with a secret so shocking that is has been unbearable to keep among my associates here. And now i shall release myself from this overwhelming burden and i shall be free.
I HAVEN’T TOUCHED A SEED IN 15 YEARS
There I said it…wow what a relief. OMG what a weight off my shoulders. For me it’s only clones of known origin and worth. No disappointments, No fake bullshit, And most importantly no time wasted.
To the OP… clones will go forever…theoretically. I got clones twenty years ago that i know were 10 years cloned from clone and there still growing strong here and there.
Good info all round guys and nice to know we all pretty much agree! Cloning from something that isn’t at it’s optimum health is the beginning of a downhill spiral but saying that you can turn around the strength and health of a degrading mother by cutting fresh clones giving them a better start and rejuvenating them back their full potential.
I kept a mother or her offspring clones going for 10 years or so.
A series of events, cold, power outages and then the last straw was losing my remaining 6 clones to 105 degree heat for 5 days straight.
I sure miss the old hippy plant. Now its pheno hunting time.
Once I find a keeper I won’t lose her again if I can help it.
I will go CS spray route for seeds too.
but yeah most likely any degradation would come from an outside source, like getting your stock infected. Once that happens, all future clones will be infected too.
with covid preventing me from returning to Australia to pick up my seed bank in mum’s fridge I had to run his gear. Took about a year to turn them around but on track now 