I’m just looking into a 2x4 light now, heavily considering the Mars Hydro- but I can’t argue with your numbers as usual. Damn you for always being there to talk sense into me. I’ll have to show you what I do with your design. Might be a bit- my theatre’s roof has collapsed and I have several wet lights on the bench.
Keep up the science, man. Sometimes it’s the only thing that makes sense in the world, to me anyways.
Mars Hydro is junk. If you’re going to spend money on a retail fixture, get one of these:
Grow Light Science Grow 300
Can’t speak to quality or lifespan, but looks like by far the best value on the market with a very good fast growth or flower spectrum.
Curious what led you to this conclusion? Do you own any Mars Hydro product or ever run any?
I for one own Mars Hydro gear, racks of Barrina T4s as well as EB2 and EB3 arrays, after years of HPS and CHM, all currently in use growing cannabis… Saying that my Mars Hydro running at ~500w at the wall puts out around 4X what my 1080 W draw EB2 & EB 3 combo array in terms of lux. My Mars Hydro also was cheaper, came out of the box ready to do it’s thing, and does it well.
Having owned and run both EBs and Mars Hydro I can say from experience that they are far from crap, but hear a lot of negative unsubstantiated claims whizzing around seemingly stemming from some poor PR here on OG back in the day, I know a few members that I 100% trust were totally turned off without having tried the units and I totally understand.
I am not trying to defend Mars I have no reason too however IF I was ramping up to cover a large area I personally would not be building EB2 or EB3 arrays again I would be buying OTS (doesn’t have to be Mars could be Gravatas 1700es, HLG 650r specs whatever) as I for one spent much more time and resources trying to outdo what the Mars Hydro was already doing, straight out of the box. Does this make EB2s and EB3s crap?
I love LED, grow only under LED but I think we all need to cognizant that not everyone has the time, resources, and mental fortitude to build lights that in some instances are cheaper and more effective than others available but not all… Saying that a whole companies line of products is shite based on some YouTube reviews and no personal experience is sorely lacking in terms of disseminating knowledge for the masses IME.
Make your case why you think they are crap, share your perspective, add to the conversation instead of what could be considered as fanboying (playing into the hype without substantiation) would be worth the read IME.
No bad blood towards anyone, I really appreciate the effort and other information that you generally share concerning other matters @nube, not trying to get into a pissing contest, merely identifying what appears to be confirmation bias and providing an alternative perspective.
The problem Mars Hydro has is that they only recently started making good lights and they still misrepresent their lights with bad naming conventions and data. They’re not the only ones obviously, but being the biggest name in blurples for 10+ years kinda makes you known for the junk you produced. Yes, their terrible PR turned a lot of people off here at OG, but many were already against them for their years of being just another garbage chinese company, stealing intellectual property and lying about their products.
I hear what you are saying here Chronic, and I too have spoken to this and I agree. I don’t think anyone here is thinking about buying a GEN 1 blurple unit from 14 years ago, nor is anyone comparing these to EBs or anything else. I believe that everyone was on the same page with comparing comparable units with Full Spectrum White LEDs on board, more specifically I am speaking about a 5-year-old light the TS3000 that is now very affordable due to newer model releases
This is a big part of the Chinese business model, If you are able to produce something with good margins, you TELL your friends and family how to do the same, that is why there are 10 knock offs for every Chinese made product - nothing different about Mars Hydro in that regard.
Yes I feel most manufactured, consumer-grade lights (not commercial or industrial fixtures) over spec, embellish the specs or straight out make ridiculous claims.
The reason I mentioned something originally to Nube was it appeared to be based on this overall sentiment towards Mars but without running the gear. I can find dozens of similar comments here on OG from again folks who have never run them. I am not saying that they are the end-all be-all by any stretch but after direct comparison to my bridgelux array the Mars Hydro TS3000 is a very good light despite no one wanting to touch it because of a bad name that people keep smearing without any experience.
It’s all good, I hope that everyone continues to hate, I will continue to pick them up as they get cheaper. I for one don’t have anything to say about gear I haven’t run, don’t see the value in it.
Again nothing but love to all of you but if you don’t have personal experience with the gear why go through the trouble to slam it?
What made you think I haven’t used their products, and then accuse me of slamming them without having used them? That’s an unfortunate comment that you could have avoided had you searched my posts instead of assuming.
Mars Hydro has a very, very, Very, VERY long track record on every forum everywhere (including here), and on every sales site such as Amazon, of doing the typical bait and switch, not supporting their products per the warranty terms, or just straight ignoring a very large percentage of the warranty requests they’ve gotten over the years. Simply put, they are a typical cannabiz snake oil peddler.
And, yes, I purchased one of their tents and it was a jack-o-lantern straight out of the box and they refused to support the product. I know a number of people (in person and on forums) who purchased their lights and had problems, and then were ignored or given the runaround or simply refused when trying to collect on their warranty. I helped several of those Mars Hydro victims build new DIY lights, COBS several years ago and QBs/strips nowadays.
Perhaps they have started building slightly higher quality lights, but they still use substandard quality parts, cheap diodes, cheaper drivers and wiring, and then don’t warranty their lights like most other suppliers. Their newer products may have slightly higher performance, but this sort of thing can be measured - and they are still proving to be lower end for spectrum, output, and build quality.
You can grow weed under candles, so it’s cool that you’re having success with their products, but it’s not especially insightful about Mars Hydro. They represent low value for the money, especially if you consider the cheap components and warranty. People swore about and still buy blurples like California Light Works or Black Dog LED or whatever. Those are higher end ripoffs, similar to Mars Hydro but even more expensive.
Given their infamously long and poor track record, Mars Hydro doesn’t deserve anyone’s business. They keep trying to put lipstick on a pig, but the truth is their low quality components make their products one of the biggest ripoffs in the industry, and there are thousands of unhappy customers with negative reviews all over the web, probably more than any other single cannabis equipment company I’ve ever seen.
Fair enough Nube.
I get it, you had a bad experience, just say that. I have owned dozens of tents from Gorillia to Mammoth and even cheap Chinese Hygo tents- all of which have light leaks. What you are saying about shity CS or Warranty issues I can’t comment on, I haven’t had any problems with my light.
Comparing your experience with a tent when you are speaking to the quality of their lights is misguided but you are right to have an opinion. I just wanted to offer some alternative information on their ONE light that I actually have personal experience with in comparison to the lights that you just built - I feel I am in a good position to do so as I own and run both. As I mentioned all good, could really care less, I am not a sales rep, I don’t build and sell lights nor am I trying to amass a following - especially of people who don’t think for themselves. I am trying to encourage critical thinking, constructive conversation, and growth. I know many other brands out there that I wouldn’t touch with a 40ft pole based on biased common knowledge, would I go out of my way to enforce this bias, no.
You mean the XLG 240 Mean Well drivers? I don’t understand why you would choose to use the same make of (industry-leading) driver in your build if they were “cheaper drivers”. Do you mean they are using smaller than 18ga wire like most EB arrays - they don’t actually, they run better wiring and connectors than I used for my array build. For me again this would be clear if you actually ran them, you would be in a better position to make accurate statements about them.
Thank you for sharing, Thank you for your help building out my most recent EB3 array that still under performs my cheap, shitty Chinese junk - Mars Hydro TS3000. Again I love my EB2 & 3s but watt for watt, dollar for dollar I am quantifiably seeing strengths and weaknesses in both in terms of measured lux, heat, and yeilds.
I won’t waste anyone else’s time, I won’t clog up your thread with rhetoric, just asking why you felt this way and now you have.
Please just apologize for making personal attacks and assumptions and leave my thread.
IF you feel that I was personally attacking you then I am sorry, I never meant to make you feel that way, merely sharing an opinion much in like anyone else posting on any thread here on OG.
I will respect your wishes and mute your thread.
Edit: Seemed as though my comments were flagged and the original thread was split… Again I had no intention of offending anyone, and I again apologize for any hurt feelings. Differences in opinions are totally acceptable in my books, I just wanted to know what the OPs opinion (on the original thread) was rooted in and engage in a logical discussion about why we didn’t agree. Both were achieved, none of which were an issue in my books and I happily agree to disagree when the gaps are too wide to bridge, as they are in this case.
Everybody is entitled to their position. Mine is that my tsl2000 rocks my 2x4.
All the best.
This debate has been going on for years. I own a 1000watt MH/HPS, 3 150 watt blurples, an HLG 600 Rspec with UV bar attachment, A TS 600 and a TS1000 that came with a complete grow kit. I currently have a grow thread on another site just to show that you can grow from seed to harvest with one of those cheap grow kits. The fact is that I can grow a plant with any of those lighting options. Mars is a cheaper product but it will still get the job done. Their new lights are actually much better than the older models.
An important point that hasn’t been discussed explicitly
(but was covered in Nube’s data).
Is cost of ownership. Cheap + inefficient might not be the best solution.
Of course bleeding edge efficiency isn’t either… but it comes with bragging points… 
Search that data a couple ways and then compare what you find.
Cheers
G
I am sure Mars had some bad deals back in the day looking on all the old forum threads. However I have purchased 2 x SP3000 lights from Mars. Very efficient, good build quality. Each one smashes a 2x4 space. Their foot print can actually flower a 2x5 space too. Quality driver and diodes. Great lights.
Light is light to a point, if it grows plants, works for your space, is realitively efficient and a decent price for what you get and has the longevity to last 3-5 years or more or at least till you want to upgrade then really if it’s named marshydro, hgl, bridgelux, fluence or whatever it’s all moot at that point as we’re still growing plants and how you get there at least doesn’t matter to me.
all the lights with misrepresented watt figures are scams, people that dont know better lose money on them.Dont care what the name of the company is.
I bought some Mars Hydro’s and so far both my plants and I are loving them. I just started flowering with the SP6500 @ 75%. You could use these lights in a lighthouse to prevent ships from hitting the rocks. I also own some SP300’s and was very satisfied with their results and energy costs. I considered building my own and still am in the future. But I am so far very satisfied with these lights and so are my plants. Look at the leaves just praying towards the light.
Any time I’m in the market for a new light I think about trying mars hydro or even viparspectras new line.
I’ve grown with a few blurple in my day then switched to quantum but everytime I do the research, the numbers just dont come close enough to pull the trigger over HLG or Kingbrite.
Considering most high quality lights now are using samsung diodes and mars is still on epistar it’s clear you CAN get a better light outside of mars hydro but those that dont have issues with their products or have to deal with customer service are happy so ultimately it’s up to you. The research and numbers are all there to be looked at before making a final decision.
I agree Mar Hydro’s customer service is sub par. I had an issue with a tent I bought through ebay and their customer service gave me such a run around ebay looked at it and gave me a full refund.
The unfortunate truth is Chinese companies do not understand the value in repeat customers as their market is huge and flooded with competitors. Hopefully Mar Hydro will improve their customer service.
Beerus I’m going to look at your light suggestions.
I have a kingbrite. same build as a HLG quantum board just much cheaper. I’ve ran q few different HLG and currently run their 65w 4500k 132 and quality is the same.
I got my 260w for 180 shipped
Edit; another great thing about kingbrite, is customer service. Messages to the owners/distributor is easy and within a day if not hours. The only downside is some of the warranties are only a year or 2.
My next purchase is gonna be the Rspec HLG 300. I run a 4x2 and a 5x2 shower.
