Cultivar Laboratory Testing Results ⚛

Northern_Loki · September 27, 2021, 2:26pm

Found this PhD dissertation where the author had performed a variety of analysis including cannabinoid concentration versus terpenoid concentration:

ubc_2019_may_mudge_elizabeth.pdf.pdf (3.9 MB)

Figure 6.1:

This tends to confirm our findings earlier on the positive correlation of terpene content versus total cannabinoids for THC type cultivars (type I and type II). This paper does not detail the inverse correlation we’ve seen for the CBD type cultivars (type III) suggesting an area for additional analysis.

FarmerNed · December 8, 2021, 7:19pm

I just tested a batch at ProVerde in Milford MA. It was 115 bucks with the terpene profile. I like these folks and will do biz there from now on.
I would really like a solution that I could buy that tests for terpenes. I say that the MY DX and the Purple one don’t test for terpene.

Purple-N-Hairy · December 19, 2021, 10:04pm

One of the best labs in the biz. I met those guys and attended one of their presentations at a scientific instruments show a few years ago. They have the most updated and sophisticated instruments being utilized by highly experienced scientists. Yes, they’re expensive - buy they’re reliable and accurate.

FarmerNed · December 19, 2021, 10:37pm

Agreed, and I want the terpene tests as well.

FarmerNed · December 23, 2021, 3:26am

I have some more stuff to test there so I’ll report back with some results.

Heritagefarms · December 31, 2021, 7:48am

check it out here are the results for a sample I dropped off of my grape rebellion, is it me or did they add up the total thc wrong, I get 27.3

Northern_Loki · December 31, 2021, 3:01pm

Highly respectable results. Calculations look good.

The total THC (d9) is calculated using by the decarboxylated THC and the not yet decarboxylated THCa. The conversion utilized is THC + (THCa * 0.877).

So, the current THCa = 25.26% and THC = 2.04.

(25.26 * 0.877) + (2.04) = 22.153 + 2.04 = 24.19% THC est where total cannabinoids is simply the sum of all detected cannabioids, whether decarbed or not, at 27.91%. They do appear to round every thing up by 0.01% which is well within the margin of testing error.

There is also some CBGa. I don’t know how this gets factored in since it could be converted to CBDa, CBDVa, THCa, THCVa, CBCa, CBCVa, etc depending.

A past trial I had with passive decomposition (time) had shown a variety of decomposition product from CBGa to include CBG, CBN, THCv, and CBC from an initial CBGa of 1.7%, fwiw.

Nice work! Nice terpene results, as well. High a-humulene, b-caryophylene. Sounds earthy, herbs, spicey. Would you happen to have a photo of your sample?

Heritagefarms · December 31, 2021, 6:49pm

So what’s the reasoning behind reducing the thca total in the equation ?
I don’t have a picture in my current phone but I have a thread here called grape rebellion that has tons of pics
The predominate smell and taste is skunky candy. Some say grape some say juicy fruit, smells more like a skunky fruit punch to me. I’m guessing the linalool and nerolidol could be responsible for the fruity smells and the other dominate ones the skunkiness. The limonene is high also but dosent contribute the normal citrus smells associated with it, must be masked or altered by one of the others. I’ve smoked heavy limonene strains that tasted like mt dew and or floor cleaner, there are non of those smells present but the limonene is still there.

Northern_Loki · January 1, 2022, 12:20am

THCa itself is generally not considered psychoactive (there may be other benefits). It is a precursor to psychoactive components such as THC which is obtained by decarboxylation, for instance.

When analyzing a sample, they are measuring the mass of the individual detected components. The resultant mass is then compared to the sample mass to obtain a ratio (also why sample preparation and water content has a huge influence). THCa has an additional COO(H) chain that is partially lost during decomposition to THC. COOH is a carboxyl group. The mass lost from loosing the COO (CO₂) is why THCa is multiplied by 0.887 to estimate the THC, for instance. This is in essence what is meant by decarbing/decarboxylation. It will occur either naturally over time, exposure to light particularly UV, by chemical process, or by heat.

To dig a bit deeper, let’s analyze.

THC molar mass is 314.469 g/mol
THCA molar mass is 358.478 g/mol

We calculate the ratio between the two: 314.469 / 358.478 = 0.877
Notice this result is the conversion factor utilized by the testing labs.

Let’s double check that value. What about the difference: 358.478 - 314.469 = 44.009.

Then what is the molar mass of CO₂, in the decarboxylation process?

C = 12.011 g/mol
O = 15.999 g/mol

12.011 + (2)15.999 = 44.009. This matches and verifies that the liberation of CO₂ as to the reason the masses differ between THCa and THC. The result of decarboxylation.

FWIW, THC will continue to decompose to other forms or there may be other isomers generated. The assumption here is that all of the THCa is converted to THC upon conversion.

Sound delicious!

Northern_Loki · January 1, 2022, 12:10am

Just want to reiterate, your results are excellent. As a point of comparison, this is where your sample would land relative to approximately 3700 flower samples from a lab out on the East coast. It’s within the top 10% for Max THC and within the top 3% for total terpenes.

Max THC across sample set:

Total Cannabinoids across sample set:

Smaller sample set for terpenes:

I’d be interested in purchasing some of those seeds.

Terpsnpurps · December 31, 2021, 9:11pm

Here’s an option for buying one yourself… expensive as hell… they are local to me… looks very nice!!! Don’t have to destroy the sample etc…

Northern_Loki · January 1, 2022, 4:42am

That’s a new one to me. There was another one of those out there that use spectrometry to estimate THC that someone had mentioned earlier in this thread.

I had even tried to figure out where the cannibinoids where at one point using spectrometry on a tincture … but didn’t really spend the time trying to figure out how/where to look within the results:

The slope above 700nm the secret? Or, maybe there’s photoilluminescence somewhere? IDK.

Any case, would be neat to get hands-on with one one some day to do a comparison against the really really expensive mass spectrometry units.

Terpsnpurps · December 31, 2021, 9:57pm

Yeah man… also I do know I saw somewhere that uvb exposure 15 mins on and 45 mins off throughout the lights on during flowering has been proven to increase not only thc… but also… wait for it …wait for it… cbd… which is an Incredible find… I’ve seen the ratios thc and cbd change alot since commercial markets began with marijuana… I’m guessing they purposely weeded out cbd to increase our need to smoke more often or consume more however you’re doing it… I feel like that is a big deal and increases terpenes and phenotypes effects on our minds and bodies and how long it will last as well… But that uvb deffo helps… screw uva… that won’t do it enough… but like a solacure uvb would be ideal… or ushio… 15 on 45 off… ez pz w timer …lol… pain in the ass w out

Heritagefarms · January 1, 2022, 3:29am

That’s realy awesome to see on a graph like that and your answer totally explained the math I was missing
Also this was a outdoor sample pulled about a week early in a yard that only gets around 3 hours of direct sunlight. I’m sure she could hit 28% in the right conditions, I’ll bring a indoor sample in the spring for comparison. She has great density and stacks like a champ. I would love to enter her into the emerald cup, maybe next year. I have not found a person yet who doesn’t absolutely love this plant and I find that uncommon as we all have such different taste.
I’m working on stabilizing this into a seed line but it will be a min.
The original cross is sfv og kush to a old skunk plant from northern Mendocino county. The grape rebellion is the winner from a large pheno hunt , with the majority having light skunky fruity smells and the grape rebellion was just noticeably stinkier. They all had great structure, I expect good things to come.
The sfv og kush was from Cali connection and is sfv og crossed to federation seeds Afghan.
I don’t have any seeds of the original cross I made due some never before seen issue in seed drying that resulted in failed seed , I grew them the first year but then the next 0/70 failed to germinate. I tried all kinds of different ways and the few that cracked died immediately.
I don’t have the sfv og kush anymore because the last ones I had were all girls and weren’t impressive so they weren’t kept.
I still have the original skunk mom and the mother of my grape rebellion so I have some options.
I can get the original sfv og clone and cross to a Afghan and then to the skunk and then to the grape rebellion or I could cross a Afghan to the 92og and then to the skunk ,then the grape rebellion. The sfv is inferior to the original which is no surprise with it being a s1 but there are things to consider there and I have no idea what Afghan federation seeds released, I have tried to contact them about it but have yet to get a response. So far I’m thinking Kandahar or mazar to the sfv or 92 to start. I want as close to the original breeding as possible before I start to back cross onto the grape rebellion mom. I’d like to release seeds at the 2nd back cross to the grape rebellion and see how they come out.

Northern_Loki · November 7, 2023, 11:59pm

Some refreshed data on terpene prevalence out of ~2100 samples tested:

	Total_Terpenes
Maximum	5.03%
Minimum	0.19%
Average	1.43%
Samples with Terpene …	2104
Total Samples	2104
Percentage Prevalent …	100.00%

	α-Bisabolol	δ-3-Carene	Caryophyllene Oxide	Eucalyptol	Guaiol	Isopulegol	Linalool
Maximum	0.29%	0.37%	0.53%	0.17%	0.58%	0.35%	1.13%
Minimum	0.01%	0.01%	0.01%	0.01%	0.01%	0.01%	0.01%
Average	0.03%	0.03%	0.04%	0.03%	0.03%	0.06%	0.10%
Samples with Terpene	1187	731	1032	478	562	452	1919
Total Samples	2104	2104	2104	2104	2104	2104	2104
Prevalence	56.42%	34.74%	49.05%	22.72%	26.71%	21.48%	91.21%

	cis-Nerolidol	β-Ocimene	α-Pinene	α-Terpinene	Terpinolene	Camphene	β-Caryophyllene
Maximum	0.67%	0.73%	1.39%	0.14%	1.41%	0.29%	1.31%
Minimum	0.01%	0.01%	0.01%	0.01%	0.01%	0.01%	0.01%
Average	0.06%	0.06%	0.10%	0.02%	0.09%	0.03%	0.22%
Samples with Terpene	1779	1210	2015	609	1418	1629	2050
Total Samples	2104	2104	2104	2104	2104	2104	2104
Prevalence	84.55%	57.51%	95.77%	28.94%	67.40%	77.42%	97.43%

	ρ-Cymene	Geraniol	α-Humulene	δ-Limonene	β-Myrcene	trans-Nerolidol	α-Ocimene
Maximum	0.50%	0.83%	0.44%	1.69%	2.53%	1.10%	1.04%
Minimum	0.01%	0.01%	0.01%	0.01%	0.01%	0.01%	0.01%
Average	0.03%	0.03%	0.08%	0.21%	0.27%	0.12%	0.05%
Samples with Terpene	665	440	1952	2063	2086	1956	319
Total Samples	2104	2104	2104	2104	2104	2104	2104
Prevalence	31.61%	20.91%	92.78%	98.05%	99.14%	92.97%	15.16%

	β-Pinene	γ-Terpinene
Maximum	0.68%	0.75%
Minimum	0.01%	0.01%
Average	0.08%	0.02%
Samples with Terpene	2009	689
Total Samples	2104	2104
Prevalence	95.48%	32.75%

Notables:

The most commonly found terpene across the sample set is β-Myrcene. This is followed by δ-Limonene and β-Caryophyllene. Note that theses are fresh samples and the terpene makeup can change with age. 99.14% of the samples contained β-Myrcene.

The least commonly found terpene is α-Ocimene. This is followed by Geraniol and Isopulegol.

Some detected terpenes are found at exceedingly low quantities. While γ-Terpinene was found in 33% of the samples, the average mass was 0.02% of the sample mass. When compared to the less common terpene α-Ocimene, the average was 0.05% of the sample mass. Likewise Isopulegol, when present, averaged 0.06%.

The average amount of overall terpene mass from the sample set is 1.43%. The maximum outlier tested at an astounding 5% and is unusual.

OriginalDankmaster96 · November 7, 2023, 11:53pm

Well I wish Steephill was still in operation, so are there any other suggestions for a reliable and affordable lab in VA/DC ? I’m going to get a full profile done on CripXmas when the next plant harvests.

Northern_Loki · November 8, 2023, 11:52am

Sample set terpene prevalence and quantities visualized:

Northern_Loki · November 8, 2023, 12:44pm

I do not know.

Maybe ping the guy from Farmer Freeman who does the sex testing, he’s in DC, and may have some suggestions.

Some past testing results for cultivars named Crippy, that may be useful:

Date	Cultivar	Total_Cannabinoids	Max_THC	Max_CBD	THCa	THC	CBGa	CBD	CBDa	CBDv	CBC
2023	Crippy	18.2%	15.91%	0.09%	17.80%	0.30%			0.10%
2023	Crippy	20.6%	18.03%	0.09%	20.10%	0.40%			0.10%
2023	Crippy	17.8%	15.58%	0.10%	17.20%	0.50%		0.10%
2015	Crippy	26.7%	21.87%	0.09%	24.60%	0.30%	1.30%		0.10%	0.30%	0.10%
2015	Crippy	16.7%	14.39%	0.00%	15.50%	0.80%	0.20%				0.20%

No one has done terpene analysis and I don’t see anything tested for Xmas Bud, oddly.

Northern_Loki · November 9, 2023, 2:08am

Terpene quantity distribution across sample set.

Top producer in testing data of specific individual terpenes:

γ-Terpinene : Lambsbread
β-Pinene : Green Crack
α-Ocimene : Mr. E Pupil
trans-Nerolidol : Gorilla Glue#4
β-Myrcene : 1960’s Haze
δ-Limonene : Sour Diesel
α-Humulene : Blueberry
Geraniol : Monkey Mints (outlier)
ρ-Cymene : Citradelic Sunset
β-Caryophyllene : Ancient OG
Camphene : Ghost Train Haze #1
Terpinolene : The Guice
α-Terpinene : Waffle Dough
α-Pinene : Green Crack
β-Ocimene : Critical Kush
cis-Nerolidol : Sir Stinks-a-lot (Skunk OG x The Dawgfather)
Linalool : Sour Diesel
Isopulegol : Waffle Cone
Guaiol : CBD Critical Cure
Eucalyptol : Wilson Zero
Caryophyllene Oxide : Flaming Cookies
δ-3-Carene : Gorilla Bomb
α-Bisabolol : Gorilla Glue#4

Northern_Loki · November 9, 2023, 11:28pm

Terpene Correlation (click to view):

Values of (1) indicates perfect correlation.
Values of (-1) indicate perfect inverse correlation.
Values of zero indicate no correlation.

Size of Correlation	Interpretation
0.90 to 1.00 (−0.90 to −1.00)	Very high positive (negative) correlation
0.70 to 0.90 (−0.70 to −0.90)	High positive (negative) correlation
0.50 to 0.70 (−0.50 to −0.70)	Moderate positive (negative) correlation
0.30 to 0.50 (−0.30 to −0.50)	Low positive (negative) correlation
0.00 to 0.30 (0.00 to −0.30)	negligible correlation

For instance, the value of 0.82 indicates a moderately strong relationship between α-Pinene and β-Pinene. This means as α-Pinene increases or decreases, β-Pinene exhibits similar behavior.

For instance, the value of -0.09 between δ-Limonene and Terpinolene indicates a weak relationship as δ-Limonene increases or decreases. Terpinolene weakly follows the inverse of the δ-Limonene trend.

No p-stats generated as of yet.

edit: updated offset