Anyone here using their nutrient line? What did you think about it?
I have not used this nutrient line but taking a quick gander at their base lines, they have
Micro:
Sodium Molybdate, Calcium Nitrate, Zinc Nitrate, Boric Acid, Calcium Carbonate, Manganese, EDTA, Iron EDDHA, and Iron DPTA
Grow Line:
Ammonium Sulfate, Potassium Nitrate, Magnesium Phosphate, and Potassium Carbonate.
Bloom:
Monopotassium Phosphate, Phosphoric Acid, Potassium Carbonate, and Potassium Sulfate.
Notes:
I’m assuming they have added Potassium Carbonate in the Grow and Bloom formulas to provide some buffer capacity in some undefined way. If anyone knows the conjugate for this in a hydro system, please clue me in.
There is no silicon in the Micro formula.
They use chelated iron which is good but the remaining metals are not chelates (cheaper but less available). Also, not sure why they have EDTA, DPTA and EDDHA iron chelates listed. Iron EDTA is not suitable while DPTA and EDDHA are fine for the PH range we’d be interested in. Maybe it’s a typo and they mean Manganese EDTA.
Looks relatively reasonable. But, I’d guess they are charging a premium for what amounts to commodity chemistry.
Are you looking into using them? If so, is it relatively economical? If it’s priced like the AN stuff, there are better alternatives. Of course, completely depends on what your plans are. My two cents.
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I’m currently using the whole line (micro, grow, bloom, bulletproof si, uncle johns blend, I have both sugaree and sourdee (used independently). I have other products I use also like rock resinator, mammoth p, and slf-100. I’m noticing that my final product doesn’t have that stank strong aroma or taste. I was listening to the Adam dunn show and heard him say that he visited a grow that was using the same nutrient line and their product he smoked was lacking similar to mine. Is it something I’m doing wrong? I’m following the chart to the tee. I ph and ec every batch of nutrients I make up. Or am I using a subpar product?
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From your description, I doubt your are doing anything wrong. And, I’m afraid I personally can’t comment on results of using their formulation since I haven’t tried it. But, if you feel it’s not producing the desired results maybe it’s time to try a comparison run. Hopefully, another OG’er with direct experience can make some comments on your OP. Sorry, I’m not being particularly helpful with a direct answer to your question.
rant on There are a slew of products out there with slightly differing formulations and, in many cases, the manufacturer doesn’t provide very good information as to the nutrient ratios that they use. For instance, we have little information as to how much sulfur is being contributed to the nutrient solution. The consumer has to guess and it’s difficult to know what causes what. Ohhh, man, I feel like ranting on but I’m going to hold my tongue. Sorry 'bout that. If you’d like hear more ranting, please let us know how much this stuff costs…rant off
As a note, you can get a free starter quantity of Megacrop from @GreenleafNutrients , look for the promo information in this forum. It is not a multi-part system, so this might complicate things if you have a certain way of working, but it seems to be pretty well designed. There are quite a few comments related to the use and the results of using this stuff here as well.
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Thanks you brother. You’ve provided a great response for not have used the product. You seem to have a wealth of knowledge about the subject, and i would love to hear more. I really want to learn more about nutrient/plant interaction and nutrients in general. I don’t have an exact total on what I’ve spent but it’s def in the 200$-300$ range.
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Haha, thanks man. If it were only true. Like many of the other OG’ers, we like to read and experiment.
If you want to get into the details of formulating nutrient solutions, check out the following program which is free. Did I say free!
And, a great reference is the owner of NPK who has extensive background in horticultural science, Harley Smith. Several times a years, he runs an online seminars that goes into detail on a variety of horticulture topics including precision fertilizer management. Cheap option to get the nitty gritty on when and why plants like certain nutrients.
If you are into reading, a decent book that provides detail about how to calculate nutrient solution chemistry among other things is:
Or, a more detailed and scientifically oriented book,
Plant Nutrition of Greenhouse Crops
There are a variety of references regarding the different ratio of nutrients useful at different life cycles of a plants life, specifically for canna, on the various public forums. It does take a bit of parsing but there have been some individuals that have performed chemical analysis of popular formulations. Utilizing information gleaned from others along with the use of the Hydrobuddy application and knowledge gained from the various references, you will be armed with the ability to
- recreate any of the commercially available solutions
- understand Macro, Micro, Organics, and Mycorrhiza
- see through the marketing glitz
- better determine if a vendor is using a quality plant available formulation
- better understand the effect of specific nutrients on growth, immunity, and quality
- tune your solution for your specific needs
- share your knowledge and experience with us! Most important!
Now, creating your own formulation is a bunch of work. There is equipment involved, time, and labor. And, the inevitable mistakes. But, just gaining the background will be invaluable.
The reason I suggest this is because the big name vendors are taking us to the bank. They create some base formulas and charge you and I $$$. Then we find out we need something else called Bud Explosion or something and they charge us more $$$. And, so on. For instance, as an example of a similar three part concentrate, three gallons of solution at a 200X concentration which contains, along with the base macronutrients, fully chelated micronutrients and plant available silicon, would cost <$10 USD semi-bulk. That’s right, 600 gallons of of prepared solution at an EC of 1.2 for $10 or less. If the price a vendor charges is reasonable, say $25-$30, then ok. They have manufacturing, labor, shipping, marketing, profit goals.
I feel that some of these vendors (not all, mind you) are taking advantage of us by making it seem as though they have some magical ingredient made of ground unicorn. And, as such, keep the formulation under wraps. This makes it dam difficult to stray from their feed schedule in an educated manner. Instead it becomes a guessing game.
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Hey where can I find the ppm of each nutrient I need? Or is that plant specific?
There are potentially many variables here, such as medium, and plants require differing nutrients at different times in their lifecycle. E.g. the reason PK boosters exist. And, yes, formulas tend to be plant specific. A formula for tomatoes will probably work for green beans but it would be less than ideal. There are all-in-one formulations that will give you a general guideline of nutrient ratios that are sufficient for each of the growth stages. The ideal situation is spoon feeding specific nutrients as the result of tissue analysis, but that is more or less limited to commercial operation.
Take a look at the references noted earlier, in particular download the hydrobuddy application if you want to play with ratios. There is a formula for canna in there for both veg and flower.
The label for the nutrient solution that you have is expressed is in % and I’m too lazy to back calculate the PPMs. But, it’s possible to calculate the contribution in PPM. You could try to duplicate this in the hydrobuddy since you know what ingredient chemicals that they are using.
As a point of comparison, here are some formulations expressed in PPM from a post looking into Copper concentrations: Can copper be safely used in hydroponics to keep roots out of drains?
Ultrasol
Total Nitrogen 130
Ammoniacal N 7
Nitrate N 123
Phosphorus 66
Potassium (K) 240
Calcium 123
Magnesium 52
Sulfur 90
Boron 0.5
Copper 0.7
Iron 3
Molybdenum 0.1
Manganese 1
Zinc 0.4
Likewise, Megacrop indicates the following at an EC of 1.67:
Megacrop
Total Nitrogen (N) 158.5040
Nitrate Nitrogen (NO3-) 152.1563
Ammonical Nitrogen (NH4+) 6.3403
Phosphorous (P) 38.0431
Potassium (K) 190.7790
Magnesium (Mg) 30.1152
Calcium (Ca) 103.0256
Sulfur (S) 17.4353
Iron (Fe) 1.2682
Zinc (Zn) 1.7433
Boron (B) 1.2682
Manganese (Mn) 1.2682
Copper (Cu) 0.7925
Molybdenum (Mo) 0.1584
Silicon (Si) 1.5849
Total PPM 545.999
Jack’s Hydro-FeED(16-4-17)
Nitrogen (N) 150
Phosphorus (P) 16
Potassium (K) 132
Calcium (Ca) 38
Magnesium (Mg) 14
Iron (Fe) 2.1
Manganese (Mn) 0.47
Zinc (Zn) 0.49
Boron (B) 0.21
Copper (Cu) 0.131
Molydenum (Mo) 0.075
Jack’s Hydroponic (5-12-26) + Calcium nitrate
Nitrogen (N) 150
Phosphorus (P) 39
Potassium (K) 162
Calcium (Ca) 139
Magnesium (Mg) 47
Iron (Fe) 2.3
Manganese (Mn) 0.38
Zinc (Zn) 0.11
Boron (B) 0.38
Copper (Cu) 0.113
Molydenum (Mo) 0.075
ModifiedSonneveld’s solution
Nitrogen (N) 150
Phosphorus (P) 31
Potassium (K) 210
Calcium (Ca) 90
Magnesium (Mg) 24
Iron (Fe) 1.0
Manganese (Mn) 0.25
Zinc (Zn) 0.13
Boron (B) 0.16
Copper (Cu) 0.023
Molydenum (Mo) 0.024
Peter’s Professional Hydroponic Special (5-11-26)
Nitrogen (All Nitrate) N 50
Phosphorus P 48
Potassium K 216
Magnesium Mg 60
Sulfur S 80
Iron Fe 3
Manganese Mn 0.50
Zinc Zn 0.15
Copper Cu 0.15
Boron B 0.50
Molybdenum Mo 0.10
Then, compare this to some of the other formulations that provide sufficient information. This may give you an idea if there is some sort of deficiency in the formula you are using or at least it’ll give you an idea of differences from other formulas that folk have general success with.
Consider looking at the Megacrop calculator PPM tab that will give you an idea of the PPMs for each individual nutrient for their formulation.
Also, there are some posts on other forums that go into detail of what others have tried and succeeded with DIY formulations.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/easy-diy-laymens-coco-coir-ingredients-from-fatman.869038/
I’m certain at some point a general thread will be opened up here to discuss this in greater detail.
Is there something deficient in the Cutting Edge formula? IDK, could be. Need to give us the PPMs of the macro and micro nutrients of the final nutrient contribution in order to compare.
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I think I’m just really over feeding. I did a flush today and the runoff was all the way up to 1500 ppm. I finally got it down to 850ppm. I’m not gonna give them anything until the pots get very light. Then I’ll give them a nutrient feeding at about 70% strength (hopefully this will keep my ppm around 800) and wait till they dry out all the way again. Then do a watering with mammoth p, wait til dry, and then do an enzyme watering. How does this sound? Btw what would you recommend to add to that second waterings and such? I was thinking about maybe some superthrive, recharge, and mammoth p? What would you recommend? Thank you so much for your in depth responses btw. It is very helpful.
i’ll 2nd megacrop… it’s a complete 1 part and so easy/convenient and cheap… 22lbs for $60 (USA) and it’ll last a long time… plus it has everything u need incl enzymes
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I agree I’m using mega crop on my baby’s that I have growing on my post it works